has patriot completely given up on the box office?

[nfsuw]

well im sure a lot of the users that used to be here have jumped ship by now, but has patriot jumped ship too? the true potential of this box is enormous, but it doesnt seem like patriot really cares. i was looking at the change log of one of the direct competitor boxes, the asus o!play... and they just keep adding new and useful features.

heres a changelog of their most recent firmware (that even comes with a source...)

O!Play HDP-R1 firmware update (For NTSC TV system user)
Internet service:
1. Over 20,000 internet radio stations
2. Over 100 internet TV channels
3. Flickr
4. Picasa
5. Weather
New functions:
1. Add BD iso navigation and subtitle identification
2. Add BD/DVD direct play by folder
3. Add hue and saturation tuning in video setup menu
4. Add Brazil language support
5. Add power saving function in system setup menu
6. Add My shortcut edit function
Fixed bugs:
1. Fix UPnP bug: wrong data information
2. Fix Timezone setting bug: can't stop issue
3. Fix Clear key does not work when key in encrypted string
4. Improve JiPin 8042 HDMI compatibility

correct me if im wrong, patriot staff... but it looks to me like the company itself has jumped ship...

[RxBandit]

The O!Play HDP-R1 firmware sounds amazing!

The internet tv chanels is what sounds the coolest to me...

Wish I had an ASUS haha

I wander if you could flash the pbo with the HDP-R1 firmware, the only thing that concerns me in doing that is the pbo remote wont work. Im a broke college student so a harmony remote seems unlikely...

[kuri]

^ Yeah, me too. In hindsight, I should have picked up the Asus.

I was originally attracted to the PBO with its internal hdd design, so it'd look more clean with my existing setup, but with network speed problems and the like, I end up copying files from my USB stick most of the the time anyway.

[Abaddon]

It does seem as though nobody is listening on the forums anymore. Perhaps Patriot wasn't prepared for the amount of software support expected by us end users. I'll very likely be selling my PBO on Ebay unless I hear news of something amazing on the horizon.

[Korbis]

It does seem as though nobody is listening on the forums anymore. Perhaps Patriot wasn't prepared for the amount of software support expected by us end users.If that's the case they should release the hardware design to the public and let us write firmware for it to correct their problems.

[JPMG]

Let see, you have a box you can turn on and plays almost anything out there.
And it plays what it is listed to play (some list formats, but don't actually play them).
The unit hit the market, about Nov-Dec of 2009, but already you think Patriot is dumping it? Hmmm .... why?
Because there is not a firmware update every week?
Because every post does not get a reply from the company?

It does what it is supposed to do (OK, the GUI is a bit clunky).

Networks speed is OK ... I'm playing BluRays (25GB-30GB) from a server with no stutters or problems. But I did realize that you can't reliably get data that fast with wireless, so I just connect with a cable.

If you REALLY think the other box is great, read their forums and support area ... they have their share of complaints and whines.

Now if you really want to play every possible format and have every possible bell and whistle ... then just build a HTPC.
That is, a decent mobo, fast CPU (cuz the lifting is not done in hardware), a bunch of RAM, disk, decent video card, then find, load, tune, configure all the codecs, then add your apps and *POOF* it will do what you want.
But I doubt it will be as small, start up as fast and be as stable.
And way more that $100 or so the PBO costs.

Trust me ... I have multiple MCE boxes to do esoteric stuff, and they all require care and feeding.

If you want to go faaaast .. get a Corvette (but you can't carry much cargo).
If you want to carry a lot, get a dumptruck (but don't street race).

I like the PBO, it's a decent dumptruck :)

Cheers!
... M ...

[wigout]

JMPG-

Some people have been sitting on the forums with expectations rising since the launch of the device, and that's a hard thing to understand from an outside point of view.

Not me, however- I got my pbo a month or so ago and think it's the portable's bee's knees. Wish recovering to firmware was easier to trigger, however.

-wigout

[JPMG]

Well I feel for them if they have been waiting with their expectations growing.
Like you, I just got two about a week ago and have been digging into them.

I think it's slicker than a wet frog, it does what it does plus has some tuning options. Fast, portable and functional. I still like the GUI on the MCE box ...BUT... that is a full blown PC.

With that said, I think the box and ones like it will flourish if they open up the sofware and the real linux tweakers get into it.

For example, look at the Linksys routers.

There is an entire cottage industry around fixing/tweaking/tuning the router software to turn it from a basic box into a full blown robust router. So much so that when the company tried to halt it (by reducing the memory and other tricks) there was such a backlash they finally released a version designed for tuning. And LInksys uses it as a marketing tool.

But the real issue is that I think Patriot was not aware of the real lifecycle cost for a hardware/software solution, this is not a RAM chip they can slam out the door and move on to something else. That is the time/cost to maintain the software, plus the testing to insure that new features do not break old features. It took many LARGE sofware companies that depend on SW for their revenue many years to figure that out. Some didn't and died.

On the bright side, software design/development/testing is now a somewhat known process. Thus Patriot should be able to come up to speed in short order.

Cheers!
... Mike ...

[The Globule]

On the bright side, software design/development/testing is now a somewhat known process. Thus Patriot should be able to come up to speed in short order.

Cheers!
... Mike ...

You would think so...:rolleyes:

[pthomas82]

I've had my unit for about a month now - Loving it!

As you said, what do you want it to do?

Me - I wanted something to play MKV files... and HOLY CRAP it does it!

Picture looks sweet on my 50" so im pleased as punch.

lol if the people wanted something crazy - should have got a popcorn hour c-200.. however , for budget quality - you cant beat the PBO!

[Korbis]

Man ... what a bunch of whining noobs ....

Let see, you have a box you can turn on and plays almost anything out there.
And it plays what it is listed to play (some list formats, but don't actually play them).
The unit hit the market, about Nov-Dec of 2009, but already you think Patriot is dumping it? Hmmm .... why?
Because there is not a firmware update every week?
Because every post does not get a reply from the company?

We have every right to whine especially when a product is advertised as such doesn't follow through as promised.
Take my example: Purchased PBO two weeks ago. Unit fails to work with my TV. In order to get it to work I have to disconnect the HDMI cable, turn it on and then reconnect it. Now is this the way a media player should work? I know I'm not the only one as many others have similar issue. Shouldn't they be working on the firmware immediately to address issues like this?

[JPMG]

OK ... it does not work with your specific TV ... sorry to hear that.
So you are mad.
However, it DOES work with all of the units I have tested it on.
So I am happy.

But, you said you purchased it two weeks ago.

If the unit is so bad, and you are upset that it does not work with your TV, then why not just return it and get one that DOES work with your TV?
Rather than demand that the comapny drop everthing else going on and immediately fix your problem.

While you have not mentioned the TV is does not work with, I am betting that the TV cost significantly more than the $90 or so that the PBO cost. So you could get a unit that works with yout TV, but it might cost a lot more $$.

Bottom line ... it's hardware and stuff works (or doesn't).
Life's too short .. so if it yours does not work, march back to where you got it, get your money back, put your coin into one that does, and be happy.
I mean, it's your PBO unit and you have full control of fixing the issue of making it work with your TV.

Cheers!
... M ...

[RxBandit]

lol if the people wanted something crazy - should have got a popcorn hour c-200.. however , for budget quality - you cant beat the PBO!

I'm with you that it plays MKV files great, thats mainly what I got the PBO to do.

What NFSUW is saying is that for $100, less than the PBO cost at launch, you can buy an ASUS HDP-R1 which can do a whole lot more... without paying the $200 or so for the popcorn hour.

I'm content with mine don't get me wrong, im just saying for the same price or less from ASUS you get some pretty cool features that the PBO is missing.

[wildscribe]

I had to give up on PBO. As much as I liked the workmanship - the aluminum case is very nice and even the remote is better than most media players - I could not get used to the big red chapter titles popping up when I was watching a movie.

There is currently no way to turn off subtitles or even adjust the subtitle text size and color. I understand that Patriot is working on the problem, but I cannot wait for another firmware release, and based on the problems with P04, I am not sure if Patriot is even capable of fixing this issue.

I wound up buying a WD HD Live TV and although the hardware isn't nearly as nice as the PBO - it's a small hunk of plastic and the remote is tiny - at least the WD HD plays movies without obnoxious red subtitles and I even get some bonuses like album covers with music, Pandora radio, YouTube, etc.

Of course, the WD HD costs more: $119 vs. $89.95, but at least I don't have to worry about whether Patriot is going to be able release a firmware that will actually fix problems and add features.

[theman]

I had to give up on PBO. As much as I liked the workmanship - the aluminum case is very nice and even the remote is better than most media players - I could not get used to the big red chapter titles popping up when I was watching a movie.

There is currently no way to turn off subtitles or even adjust the subtitle text size and color. I understand that Patriot is working on the problem, but I cannot wait for another firmware release, and based on the problems with P04, I am not sure if Patriot is even capable of fixing this issue.
.


I had this same issue with subtitles and found you could change the text color AND size using the system menus. You have to dig into it, but it CAN be done. I am using P02.

[Monkey]

Maybe they should of making this box opensource and let the community out there to provide full support... ;)

[nfsuw]

its funny how some people are quick to make judgements... i never said i jumped ship.. just wondered if patriot did. iv had mine for 2 months, it still chugs along fine for me, but it would be nice to have features other boxes have, which obviously could happen since other box's based on the same chipset already have it happening. its just patriot seems to not really care, or if they do care, its sure is hidden. like the lastest firmware, seemed to fix one thing, then break another.

like many have said on this forum, if patriot published the full source for this box (like some other box's have), im sure the community would take care of itself, and all patriot would have to do is sit back and have a coffee (and pay the webserver fees)

[wigout]

like many have said on this forum, if patriot published the full source for this box (like some other box's have)

I'm not aware of any media player manufacturers who have published the full source for their media players.

Which manufacturers have done so?

-wigout

[Friend_g]

There is absolutely nothing wrong that people get PBO as it is. PBO is full of features, cheap and plays as it intends. However, when customers pulled the trigger on PBO, a very likely reason is its brand - Patriot. Judging from its memory business, it is reasonable to expect good after-sale service and continuous support from Patriot.

Bug fix, feature unlock, GUI improvement, ..., these are not promised at time of sales. But customers naturally expect a good brand will make these happen. Why don't people buy those clones that were also brought into forum?

The PBO after-sale support disappoints many PBO customers. It does not match its brand. It does not compare to competitors. That's all the whining about. Some customers are so disappointed that they are willing to take over the app development from Patriot. I can see the Patriot brand is failing...

[JPMG]

Sigh ... the happy fantasy of "open source" and "user community development" rears its head. For a start, read this post which gets into the internals a bit:
http://www.patriotmem.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10687&postcount=2

But then to the reality of development (user community type).
With a new tech toy there will be some with code knowledge who will jump in and start to hack at it ... a fix here, patch there ... a few fast releases and it seems all is well.

Then, things break (oops, released too fast, did not test it), or there are confilicting user demands (BIGGER FONTS -no- DISPLAY MORE TEXT), or new features disable old ones (users want both anyway) and again the cycle starts.

If it is a single developer, he might be fired up for a while, but then a new toy or challenge will appear and he will wander off. Or he will get sick of the complaints on his efforts and just quit.

If it is a group, then there will be the bickering, posturing and other stuff going back and forth that will bring it to a crawl. Look into many of the open source development projects and see how they are puttering along.

Don't get me wrong, there are a LOT of great, open source and user developed tools crafted by folks who are really into ONE THING, delve deep into it and create an amazing tool or app. But not too many who are working late into the night writing new front ends or GUIs.

Most of the long term/larger development is done by groups with schedules, management and a big driver .... they get paid to do it (and don't get paid if they don't) .... money to keep you fed is a STRONG motivator.

BUT

If there is such an interest in creating a tool or app for the BO, then why not tackle one NOW ... that could be useful ?

How about a Windows App to create path shortcuts on the PBO.

It has one pane that shows the PBO units, another that shows your servers. Click into the servers to find the folders.
Drag the selected folder over to the PBO pane.
Optionally create subfolders for the PBO and different names for the folders.
Click [OK] and it is saved to the PBO and shows up under the HDD list.

Right now I'm doing that manually, so an app should be simple, right?
Sounds easy, but it does involve multiple issues.
Dig into it and you will see what I mean.

And that's just a simple utility tool, not a full blown GUI or mini OS like what's inside of the PBO.

However .... if someone here wants to write it, I'll use it!
Cheers!
... M ...

[kuri]

If Patriot-delivered firmware delivers what customers want and has features comparable to its direct competitors, I don't think users will be yearning for open-source as much.

Patriot really has no excuse. The PBO is based on the same chipset as Asus' HDP-R1, released around the same time and for around the same price.

Both products have their quirks and bugs, but while Asus' firmware updates continued at a steady pace and has its features increased, Patriot has stayed still with the PBO.

Many of us here have had the product since its initial release, and were promised much more. Check the threads from the beginning in this forum and see how much more involved the Patriot staff was back then.

Repeating what Friend_g said, if it weren't for Patriot's perceived better support from its memory products, there would have been no reason to choose this product over one of the many clones available based on the same Realtek chipset.

[JPMG]

Hmmm ... it does what I need it to do, works well and has the features that I need. So I guess I'm not yearning for open source. But if you did get open source, what would you do with it? Are you a coder? Have you done commercial software analysis, development or design? Do you have a delopment team on hand? Are you versed in the hardware?

For the vast group that it works well for, they are using it and actualy watching videos! Remember, on forums like this the majority are folks who are unhappy about something ... since the ones it works well for are using it and not here writing about it!

Also ... yes I have read many of the posts (way back to the 30+ page beginning).
I did note many issues that were brought up are fixed (at least, they do not show up on the unit I got recently).
I also saw multiple issues that were due to users not looking at the docs or even the remote control button labels.
And some answers I was looking for but ASKED about, rather than searched first.

Actually, after ready some of the older posts, I now understand why the Patriot support staff might be AVOIDING the forums!

For example:
1) Asking the same question over and over, but not looking it up first.
2) Demanding a fix for their "important problem", but not giving any details.
3) Finding a "cute new tool" on wikipedia or a linux thread and almost demanding proof why it could not be included.

Some of the early posts (way back in the 30's section) were well thought out, well written and thourougly described how the internals work what they can do and what they can not do. But they don't seem to be read.
Rather just blather that "you have not fixed what I wanted ... I'm leaving in a huff"

No big surprise Asus is keeping up, they design/build mobos, so they have software staff, knowledge of writing/working with firmware, and understand flash over substance (look at their boxes and the rest to temp folks to buy a new motherboard). Patriot makes memory. Not sexy but it works (like the PBO).

The things they COULD control, they did ... the fan issue with RMAs, fast response and resolution. Both of my new units are almost silent.

You did hit it completely when you stated "Many of us here have had the product since its initial release, and were promised much more". You were an early adopter, basing it on what you read/hoped for rather than what was. ANYTIME you get a new gen product it's gamble, some you win, some you lose.

But from what I have seen with other similar sitiations, if you want them to open it up, the do something other than whine. Write an app for it, build a tool, create an add on, something like that. Write a FAQ about tweaks to the system, a tutorial on how to create path links, an overview of the internal files, what they mean and how then can be tuned. Add some value.

That shows them there is REAL interest, a REAL develop community, and REAL interest. Most folks who want "open source" just figure that the company will release the code and some unknown third party will show up from nowhere and magically fix the code, make it all right and things will be happy and cheerful.

Whatever ... it's always easier to write a few complaints than to create something.

Cheers!
... M ...

[foxeye]

I like hearing a voice of reason. Thanks JPMG.

I admit, I have grown increasingly despondent about the PBO over the last few months. I did not pay sub $100, I paid $207 for mine. Thats my own problem, I don't live in a land of milk and honey. But even that was cheap for what it can do.

Things it could not do that I could control I did, like make all drives available over samba, and put the usb drives, plus some network shares into the same menu on the PBO, instead of spread around. With those tweaks in place I was fairly satisfied. I use the box every day and with the exception of about 5% of my media it plays everything.

I chose this product over the WD TV live (priced about the same here) because the PBO staff were active on both this forum and the AVC one, and they had released new firmware and seemed dedicated to continuing that trend. My own fault for thinking that was the case.

My despondency grew when the promised new firmware was released with no information whatsoever, hidden in an old post. Then promises were made as to the release notes... which never surfaced.

So I tried 04. And there are some nice things in it, like setting the 0.9 or 1.0 zoom levels in settings, and subs off by default. I probably would have stuck with it had they not removed the ability for my other tweaks to work.

I'm a simple man in the respect of I do what I say, and when people say, and then are not bothered to do it does annoy me. Rather say you could not be bothered. As for patriot staff, I have 0 faith left in them to deliver on anything, real or imagined.

But I digress. The product is great. It is capable of more, which is where my despondency stems from. Where it fails I can live with that or work around it.

With the level of interest for PBO though, I would not recommend it to my friends.

[aasoror]

OK .. here we go again .. every once and a while some enthusiastic noob gets so exited about his sub $100 brand new toy and then notices the general dissatisfaction on the forum so he starts whining about the whiners. (no offense meant JPMG I am just using your own terms ;) ).

So lets do this one more time ..

Background ..

I am an early adopter, with two boxes, fully aware of the PBO capabilities and limitations. Surprisingly, the boxes are doing whatever so little I ask from them (play my vids), I have had done minimal software tweaks (only the NFS mount) and major case modding.

BUT, I am able to see beyond my own needs and accepting the issues of other users, if I can't support them I at least wont deny them from their right to ask and pressure for support.

When would one typically convert ..?
It doesn't take long to hit the brick wall, sadly it would be something very intuitive and easy to answer. for example, your specific question about changing workgroup/box name (which was answered under 45 minutes) back in November it took exactly 2 months to get figured out (no thanks to Patriot by the way). Back then, you wouldn't have found an answer on the forums, post it on the wishlist, then you would contact support, get nothing from them (more on that later) , start looking in it yourself, surprisingly find it is a simple menu option on some other competitors box, now you know it can be done .. you are officially a convert, then you start whining about it.

That said, your multiple box issue is way advanced compared to what people here are frustrated about, how about shuffle option for audio track ? or the lack of certain language subtitle support ? disabling chapter markers ..?

Don't whine about it, return it and get your money back ..
I personally think, a no reply is way better than this reply. Imagine someone telling you this (which was very true couple of months ago) .. "I only have one box, lucky me .. unlucky you .. go get yourself a player that fits your need .. the PBO isn't for you" ?!?!. The logic itself is flawed, your needs might change beyond the 30 days return period of the PBO, assuming that you a bought the PBO "AS-IS" without any opportunity for upgrades (not to mention bug fixes) is just not logical and one shouldn't ask others to follow suit. (except with the TV incompatibility issue .. more on that later).

The PBO is the best bang for buck ..

Anyone thinking that just doesn't know any better :
the PBO non-sale , non-rebate price is around $135, this is comparable to WDTV live, ASUS O!play Air and Xtreamer + many more that are based on the very same Realtek chipset.
If one joined late with $85 invoice, thanks are due to the early adopters who bought the PBO at list price and have been whining about the lack of support for several months (here and on other forums) which (believe it or not) didn't help moving sales and made Patriot price the PBO more reasonably. (Side note, thanks to the PBO support community, sales are doing just fine now ... PBO price is going up as we speak)


If its not the best bang for buck .. why get the PBO to start with ..?
As another member just summed it up, its the Patriot name, their excellent support for their memory products. The heavy presence they had on the forums like AVS answering basic questions. There excellent support resolving the faulty fan issue. Its not strange to project that on the software development for the box. Why get the exact same box (clone) from unknowns like Mascool or Hornet while you have Patriot name behind the PBO (even if its $20~$30 pricier).

So whats wrong with the box ?
the box simply doesn't *Fully* work as advertised (not mentioning upgrades).. small sample below.

not everyone is blessed with a wired network to hockup the PBO. But why can't anyone get a decent streaming via wifi (1080p streaming).
Why is transfer speeds always hover around 3~4 MB/s even on a wired connection with 12.5 MB/s limit ?
Why is the windows shares disappearing randomly from the box ?
Why isn't SATA I HDDs working properly on the PBO ?
Why is it hit and miss with any HDD > 500GB (though PBO advertise 1TB support) ?
Why can't the PBO play HD-DVD ISOs (or EVOs) though its listed on the firmware update sticky ?
Why can't the PBO play ISOs on UPnP ?

* all those should work because Patriot told me they would, no one is expected to go try all competitor boxes to see who is making false claims about their products. There is no excuse that these issues are still open since November.

Whats wrong with Patriot development support ?
Nothing, it simply doesn't exist.

I am not sure what conflicting functionality and what "few firmware you are referring to in your post (there was only two released)". You need to dig deeper.
There is not a single item from the wishlist that was addressed. Patriot even didn't release a change, feature, bugfix list for the new firmware, because simply the don't know any.
Not sure what past software issues you were referring to that you didn't notice on your box, you just need to look harder ;)
There not a single development issue that Patriot has solved on this forum (and I have read every single forum post here).
CJ is a representative that is caught under fire, he isn't a part of the development team and he offers no development support here (not that he is required to do so any way).
That well written post you quoted, that was not written by a Patriot personnel that was written by a fellow contributor. And we now all know exactly what this box is capable of (simply check other players that has the exact same internals .. down to the NAND chip manufacturer) and what is Patriot willing to do with it (so quoting tpublic is out of context here).
The P02 firmware was based on an outdated SDK (even at the time of the P02 release) leaving the PBO users to deal with issues that every single competitor had already resolved by issuing an updated firmware based on the new SDK.
P04 firmware with a relatively updated SDK (fixing the Sony issues that was already fixed several months ago by Realtek) introduces more bugs than it ever solves.
How can Patriot be serious about supporting this product when "not a single bug reported" was acknowledged by Patriot ?!
Even the Toshiba HDMI issue, Asus has been working with realtek and is currently user testing a firmware beta that should fix the Toshiba issue, what is Patriot doing ..? simply nothing .. we are still waiting for the two additional updates that were supposed to be released in March. can't fix it if you didn't acknowledge it is broken .. can you ?
Check the WDTV support forums, where development team representatives are directly handling support. Check the feature status threads that developers have created there. Pass by Xtreamer and see how many firmware releases have been out so far (which has feature/change list by the way). This isn't rocket science this is called active development and proper support.


Patriot was offered support by what is now one of the strongest media player user communities and they wasted it. This is the only user community that has been running itself (and thriving) for months without a single interaction with device development team.

Why are senior members no longer whining about it ?
Simply because we have been here long enough now to know that there is no use, this is beyond Patriot capabilities and resources. They have clearly outsourced the development and they don't (or don't care to) know anything about the details. They dont step in because they have nothing to tell us. They have given us our share of broken promises which have only frustrated the community (and you haven't been here long enough to know that .. but a statement coming from the manufacturer on their own forum is not a daytime dream or a gamble, its a commitment .. buyers expect these commitments to be honored). Most senior members are now silently trying their own workarounds.

Bottom line ..
Be happy with your toy for as long as it lasts, but don't decline others their earned rights to complain if they are not as lucky as you.

p.s. Kindly don't take it personally because its not meant to be ... we have been through this several times here, which is normal ... I think I need to see if patriot would allow us to make a sticky about the subject :rolleyes:

[outatouch0]

WELL SAID aasoror - much better than I was going to say it and certainly more polite. ;)
Glad you beat me to it so I didn't respond before that second cup of coffee. :p

[Koto99]

Asus O!Play vs Patriot Box Office

Asus have no

DVD Menu Key on Remote Control.
No 1-0 Keys on Remote Control.
No Chapter Jump Funktion with Keys.
First batch no Volume Keys on Remote Control
ID3 Tag Bug 2.3
No Goto Function
Firm Downgrade Bug flash under 1.17 kill the Player 100%
No Browse All

The Patriot Box Office ist the Better Player.

[aasoror]

Asus O!Play vs Patriot Box Office

Asus have no

DVD Menu Key on Remote Control.
No 1-0 Keys on Remote Control.
No Chapter Jump Funktion with Keys.
First batch no Volume Keys on Remote Control
ID3 Tag Bug 2.3
No Goto Function
Firm Downgrade Bug flash under 1.17 kill the Player 100%
No Browse All

The Patriot Box Office ist the Better Player.

The Asus O!Play got 5 different *meaningful* firmware updates so far ...

Asus O!Play (two firmware updates after the quoted 1.17) vs PBO

PBO has no

no internet radio stations
no internet TV channels
no Flickr
no Picasa
no Weather
no BD iso navigation and subtitle identification
no extended language support
no power saving function in system setup menu
no settable box time
no playlist shuffle (functionality not there, not to mention a list shuffle on the Asus remote)
no sleep timer
no Win7 network neighborhood connection support
no fix for the Toshiba HDMI issue
no firmware bugfix, feature list

which is the better player now ..? :rolleyes:
Even if the hardware of the PBO (only remote and internal SATA, as everything else is the same) might be superior (more convenient) to the Asus O!Play, the software on the PBO is just crippling it, thats the whole point of this whining thread, the software development is by no means matching the capabilities of PBO hardware.

[Koto99]

@aasoror

Ok

The Asus O!Play have various Firmware Updates.

107PAL
110PAL
111PAL
113PAL
117PAL
118PAL
121PAL

Only the 1.21 Add the Internet Options. Give Patriot a Chance when Update the Firm with the lates SDK from Realtek.!!!!!

Have Add Asus the Features or Add Realtek this in New SDK?!!!!!

patriot is New on Marked and have Funktions that Asus not have. And Asus ignore the wishes from User to Add DVD Menu or similar Important Features.

I have a Asus and Buy a Patriot. The Patriot Remote Control very better as the Ugly Asus Remote Control. !!!!

ok most Options are better Remote Control. This ist for me very important.

I Sell the Asus.

Ok Patriot make various New Bug in the New Firm . Asus ist not better. Most Bugs are from Realtek.

example:
DVD Standard language Menu Bug. All Realtek Player on Marked xtreamer, Patriot, Asus, emtec n200, Ac Ryan have this Bug.

Similar DCP Progressiv bug for JPG.

[aasoror]

@aasoror

Ok

The Asus O!Play have various Firmware Updates.

107PAL
110PAL
111PAL
113PAL
117PAL
118PAL
121PAL



This is exactly the point ... you have just listed 7 firmware updates, 7 ..
Saying that Patriot is newer to the market is just not true. The PBO is just 2 months younger than the Asus O!Play .. how can we hang everything on these two months ?

Let me give you one example, Asus didn't fix the Sony HDMI problem .. it was realtek that fixed this problem, when did Asus include this fix ? Version 1.17 dated Dec 6, 2009. Give me one good reason why was the P02 re-released later on December based on an outdated SDK that doesn't include the Sony fix ?! Why did we need to wait for exactly 3 months (March 6), to get a half backed firmware that has only a single announced bugfix which is the Sony problem (which was already released by Xtreamer and O!Play 3 months earlier) ?!

I am not saying the O!Play is a better player ... I am just saying that Asus is interested in fixing the O!Play problems and are doing so professionally, on the other hand Patriot isn't interested in software development for this product, period.

Being unexperienced is not an acceptable excuse (certainly not after 6 months of the player public release), did you sign up to be a guinea pig for the PBO ? I didn't .. why do expect me to act like one ? If the PBO was half baked product then it shouldn't have been offered for to the public.

Give me an explaination for this:


For new firmware in the works: new UI over lay, added web services and some fixes, ODD drive support (not confirmed)

Hope that helps! :)

Posted on Jan 20st (more than 2 months), P04 was released March 6th (almost 6 weeks later) did you see anything from that post in P04 ?!

Need more ?


working on korean and japanese for next update.

Posted on Feb 2nd, can you see that implemented in P04 ?!



we are working on 2 more udpate this month as well. :)

Posted on March 5th ..


i will be posting a HDMI diagonistic tutorial for people who has issue with hand shake. Please stay tuned :).

We are still tuned since Feb 5th.


the P04 firmware was update during the weekend. I posted in the link to download per many people's request. The firmware update detail will follow later today.

Man, this must have been the longer day on earth, starting from March 8th till now ..

Nothing against CJ, he is just the messenger ..

PBO started way above O!Play and even head to head with Xtreamer (if not better), lack of support made it lagging way behind any half descent Realtek based player.

one more thing, we already know chipset limitations, so I suggest you going through the Wishlist and filter out the chipset limitation as opposed to the PBO software limitations before blaming Realtek for global warming. You would be surprised how many customers can't care less about progressive JPEGs or messed up DVD menus, but rather needs something as simple as support for playlist shuffle or a simple language encoding. Give me a break, community has been practically begging for something as simple as displaying the remaining time in a file when you press the "display" remote button :eek:

I understand you, and I don't doubt that selling the Asus O!Play when you did was the right decision for you, I just highly doubted that this is currently the right decision for lots of others.

[Koto99]

Saying that Patriot is newer to the market is not just not true. The PBO is just 2 months younger than the Asus O!Play

to verify?

[aasoror]

to verify?

Asus O!Play launched on August 2009 (http://www.iboum.com/pr/ASUSO.php) (Asus had no presence whatsoever in the media player market before that)

Patriot PBO launched on October 2009 (http://www.iboum.com/pr/patriot.php) (2 months apart if not less).

references linked.

[snappy46]

Good read; good arguments on both side. And the winner is ....... nah! I am not going to go there!!!

[Koto99]

hm Asus have 3 Firmwares befor Patriot come in October.

Then Asus have 3 Firmware and Patriot have 2 since October.

Right?

Patriot says various Fimware are under similar Development. Is Possibel that Patriot make a big Step to aktuall SDK.

With the Old Firmware based on old SDK the Patriot have Funktions that Asus not have. Based on better Remote Control.!!!!!!

When Patriot Add the New SDK and add all Featues, Asus O!Play will lose the Race or?.

The very Bad Remote Control will Brick the Asus Neck.:)

Sorry for my Englisch im are German.

[aasoror]

hm Asus have 3 Firmwares befor Patriot come in October.

Then Asus have 3 Firmware and Patriot have 2 since October.

Right?

True, but Why are we comparing the quantity without comparing the quality? you do realize that its just shameful for Patriot to put its name on a piece of software like the firmware P04 !?

Do you need a very fair comparison, even in terms of hardware ? take Xtreamer .. released July 2009 (3 months max before the PBO), the Xtreamer had 13 firmware updates so far (http://www.xtreamer.net/downloads/xtreamer/firmware.aspx) (yes 13).



Patriot says various Fimware are under similar Development. Is Possibel that Patriot make a big Step to aktuall SDK.

With the Old Firmware based on old SDK the Patriot have Funktions that Asus not have. Based on better Remote Control.!!!!!!

When Patriot Add the New SDK and add all Featues, Asus O!Play will lose the Race or?.

We have been here long enough to learn one thing, if you build up any hopes then you are up for a big frustration. We have been using your reasoning to push the community further since November 09. Look were this gotten us ?!
Its clear that the Patriot has outsourced the PBO development, and have since been passing unrealized hopes and promises to us. Unless they reconsider the whole project and start taking it more seriously there is no way for them to compete.



The very Bad Remote Control will Brick the Asus Neck.:)

Well, that's very subjective, lots of big handed users find it hard to press the correct tiny buttons on the PBO. Not to mention there is buttons that doesn't even have functionality (like Eject). The remote isn't back-lit anyway so it would be hard to find the correct buttons in the dark. Plus, someone can always argue that you can fully operate a PC with only 2 button mouse (+ lots of on screen options).

Great thread, I am done for the day, hopefully I got my point through.

[Patriot_CJ]

some of the funtions have been taken off due to licensing issues. But we are in the process of getting them activated via firmware. For instance, "eject" button is actually used for USB Optical devices. This is already in the works, hopefully soon should be released.

[tskitishvili]

...
Well, that's very subjective, lots of big handed users find it hard to press the correct tiny buttons on the PBO.
...


I could not agree more. I wish skip back and skip forward would be bigger and placed separately from this array of tiny buttons.

[muvipix]

some of the funtions have been taken off due to licensing issues. But we are in the process of getting them activated via firmware. For instance, "eject" button is actually used for USB Optical devices. This is already in the works, hopefully soon should be released.

I love how he darts in and darts out and doesn't say much at all, but keeps the (oh so elusive) presence.

Is it possible you could disclose "some" of the new/improved features with the next pop in? Tease us... give us something to look forward to!

[Koto99]

Well, that's very subjective, lots of big handed users find it hard to press the correct tiny buttons on the PBO. Not to mention there is buttons that doesn't even have functionality (like Eject). The remote isn't back-lit anyway so it would be hard to find the correct buttons in the dark. Plus, someone can always argue that you can fully operate a PC with only 2 button mouse (+ lots of on screen options).

Nobody is Perfect. :-)

The Remote Control ist Very Good for the Player Price. 98 Euro is not the world. See the Asus Player cost similar 98 Euro and not have this Quality Remote Control and No HDD Option. Plastic housing.

Better is bigger 100% Agree. one may also expect a miracle.


the Xtreamer had 13 firmware updates so far (yes 13).

ahem, prefer quality over quantity. Patriot would prefer to test properly.

[aasoror]

Nobody is Perfect. :-)

The Remote Control ist Very Good for the Player Price. 98 Euro is not the world. See the Asus Player cost similar 98 Euro and not have this Quality Remote Control and No HDD Option. Plastic housing.

The Xtreamer is also 99 Euros, (including a wifi N adapter), has a full fledged remote and also supports an internal HDD.



ahem, prefer quality over quantity.
Are you doubting the Xtreamer firmware quality ..? I think you should read around, Xtreamer company is a media player only company. They follow the most aggressive and yet productive firmware development technique in the market. The reason ..? their salaries depends on it. I am not going to talk more about Xtreamer as they have their own problems (but in a totally different context).



Patriot would prefer to test properly.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but you can't put "testing", "quality" and "P04" in a single sentence, read all around this forum in case you didn't.

[DeanN]

Calm down, guys! Just consider those gadgets as toys (little expensive but not cost an arm and a leg, sorry for my bad English). I myself have PBO, O!Play, and WD HD. They're not bad, and I don't expect they do more than what they are doing now. If those companies behind them tries to do more, good for us! My comparison likes such of orange and apple, but they like cars. Cars run, that is! Some have automatic transmission, some have air-conditioning or CD/MP3, heating seat, sunroof, or different things. But they definitely must have driving wheel, gas pedal, and break! Who wants what kind of features, go buy the right thing! In the past I myself kept telling my friends and relatives to buy PBO (up to 8 people), but not any more now!

[tskitishvili]

Nobody is Perfect. :-)
....
ahem, prefer quality over quantity.
...


Some time back I wanted to compare PBO vs Xtreamer:
http://www.patriotmemory.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3032
No one could list a single feature which PBO does better than Xtreamer.

[outatouch0]

Calm down, guys! Just consider those gadgets as toys (little expensive but not cost an arm and a leg, sorry for my bad English). I myself have PBO, O!Play, and WD HD. They're not bad, and I don't expect they do more than what they are doing now. If those companies behind them tries to do more, good for us! My comparison likes such of orange and apple, but they like cars. Cars run, that is! Some have automatic transmission, some have air-conditioning or CD/MP3, heating seat, sunroof, or different things. But they definitely must have driving wheel, gas pedal, and break! Who wants what kind of features, go buy the right thing! In the past I myself kept telling my friends and relatives to buy PBO (up to 8 people), but not any more now!

Yes BUT if you buy a car that is listed as having air conditioning, DVD player, and Navigation and you get a fan on the dash, an 8 track player, and a map in the glove box that is stuck & wont open....
Will you say, Yea but at least it runs.... WTF people

[The Globule]

Most of the arguments are beside the point.

The PBO has some serious issues and they need to be addressed.

Where are the firmware updates promised shortly after P04 came out?
Where is the firmware change log?

Patriot is just not following up on this and it is aggravating.

[Korbis]

However, it DOES work with all of the units I have tested it on.
So I am happy.That's great! Doesn't discount the fact there are many others that don't have a working solution to this HDMI issue. These NEED to be addressed. I didn't buy a HD media player just so I can use the composite jack for SD resolutions. This is not an acceptable work around.


But, you said you purchased it two weeks ago.

If the unit is so bad, and you are upset that it does not work with your TV, then why not just return it and get one that DOES work with your TV? Unfortunately where I live local retailers do not sell the PBO. You're probably aware the big box chains don't even carry the PBO in their lineup either. I had to mail order for this product and shipping the item back would incur additional shipping costs. Here's another kicker: You can't return a product with a missing UPC! That's right, I had to cut out the UPC for the Mail in Rebates(MIR) that Patriot loves to implement with its retailers. MIR's are horrible yet they are still a form of revenue reliant on the fact that submissions can get lost in the mail or some customers just don't bother sending in their forms on time or at all.

Why can Patriot turn to direct discounts?


Rather than demand that the comapny drop everthing else going on and immediately fix your problem.Perhaps it's based on the fact the other Realtek media players have addressed these problems with firmware updates. If they can fix this problem is it so unreasonable for Patriot to do the same?


I mean, it's your PBO unit and you have full control of fixing the issue of making it work with your TV.I have no more control over returning this PBO since they effectively killed any option of my return due to the MIR. The only option now is for Patriot to accept the return of my PBO and refund me my purchase price minus the MIR.
Another option, since you're willing to stand up for this company with ridiculous reasoning, is to have you buy my PBO. In fact why don't you buy back everyone's PBO? That's the best way to stop the 'whining' as you so put it. Otherwise it's best you keep quiet and let us air our complaints.




Bottom line ..
Be happy with your toy for as long as it lasts, but don't decline others their earned rights to complain if they are not as lucky as you.

Couldn't have said it any better!

[JPMG]

Wow .. such venom and upset ... all over a little set top box.

But some of this does not make sense. When it arrived, did it work on your system? Or was it only later when you added a new compnent?
My point is that I have seen folks spend $3000 on a TV, then get upset about a $100 box.

But ... you did answer your own question about the box ... your only route is to contact Patriot and get your money back. Send it back and get your purchase price (less MIR) back in your hands. Yes, you will have a shipping cost, but the aggrevation will be gone and you can pick out another one that works for what you want (and probably has a different set of application warts).

Perhaps if all the upset users started to demand their money back and units started piling up at Patriot they would get the idea their is a problem. Also the money going OUT would also get their attention.

Like aasoror said, it's juat a toy. Right now a new item in a market that is still evolving. It's too bad that Patriot has dropped the ball on updating it ... but I go back to my first post.

What will complaining about it here help ... since obviously they are not reading this or listening to their users ??

I mean .. you have tried one way and it does not work ... so you can keep trying the same way ... or do something different. My reference to whining is that once is a complaint, twice you made your point, multiple times turns to whines. If you have been waiting sooo long to have it fixed, and they will not, then maybe the sign reads "send it back and get another unit from another company"

But returning it to them is the best path. Perhaps when the boxes start to pile up and checks are flowing out they will either step up or step out.

Cheers!
... M ...

[billcat]

One of the only reasons I bought the PBO some time ago was the excellent support in the forums by guys like aasoror and outatouch0. The PBO works for me because it does what I want it to do which is excellent play of everything I've thrown at it through usb .. But that's only for me. What if usb didn't work as advertised? I'd be highly offended. Would that make me a whiner? Probably in the eyes of some people, but I prefer to think that I'd feel more like a justifiably frustrated user like the very guys who give us support here, the USERS who are the support because there is none to speak of from Patriot themselves. I mean, damn, how hard is it to give users a list of fixes included in an update? Every bios update includes that, and I've never been afraid of an update until I read the horror stories of P04 lol

This lack of brand support reminds me of the Abit motherboard forums where user support was also excellent until one day Abit decided not to make motherboards again and all support stopped when the forum was closed without so much as a by-your-leave. Which is why, gentlemen and ladies, despite my own good luck with the unit, I have steered many of my clients away from the PBO.

[Temukahn]

It is a very simple rule. We don't flame or insult here. Keep it clean and constructive so everyone benefits. For the most part, the entire thread has been very informative. I don't believe anyone here is perfectly informed over any one else unless you work for any of the companies mentioned: Asus, Patriot, Western Digital, etc.

I think everyone here can agree that all three of the boxes have useful features, yet none of them are perfect. My Asus gives me grief here and there, missing a few features I like. Most of the WD little issues have been manageable. Can't knock the box really based on what it is. If we could magically mold them all together, that would be nice...in a perfect world.

[aasoror]

But ... you did answer your own question about the box ... your only route is to contact Patriot and get your money back.

JPMG, I couldn't be more pleased with the change in your tune. Thanks for understanding the other side of the story.

For closure, I would like to make several remarks.

Returning the PBO to Patriot isn't always a viable option (if at all)
PM has only 3 offices worldwide (US headquarters, 1 sale office in Netherlands another in Taiwan), sale offices are purely managerial and wont accept RMA, frustrated users worldwide are only left with the US headquarters to sent the PBO to. I wonder how much would insured, traceable shipping be across the world ? Even then, depending on the reason behind your RMA, one can always argue that in lots of cases Patriot isn't required to accept a return for a "working box" (specifically regarding the TV compatibility issue). So not only you have to lose almost half whatever you paid for the box to ship it, but also its not granted to get your money back *easily*.

The TV might be $3000 worthy but a one month tweaked PBO isn't $100
You spend $3000 on a TV that works out of the box and you are done with it. You spend $100 on the PBO then 1 month of your time to tweak it (doing research, following forums, debuging and reporting back .. etc), this clearly makes the PBO pricier than the TV by the end of the month. Thats why many users find it hard to let go without a fight.

If PM isn't listening, what is the use of whining about it ?
Unless its a sticky, couple of weeks from now though problem will remain unsolved yet this thread will be buried in the 10th or so page (like many others before it). Its now typical for most educated electronic shoppers to check the support forums before doing a purchase (even if not posting but just getting a feeling of whats going on), a whining thread in the first page like this will serve them right and save them lots of frustration later on.
Next, most serious gadget reviewing sites will check the support forums when writing a review about a product (and yes this support forum was quoted one way or the other in almost all PBO reviews available online), nothing better than a reference to a "common anger and frustration on the manufacturer support forum" to spice up a review ;), if this kind of publicity wont get PM attention then nothing would. don't underestimate the power of repetitive constructive criticism (i.e. whining) :D

More on the Toshiba HDMI issue ..
Though I have been through this several times already, but here we go again. Although this might be the most critical issue of all yet Patriot should not be held responsible for it (until recently). This is a Realtek chipset issue, that is still officially unresolved. Unwarned buyers had several pages long incompatibility reports about the Toshiba sets (including specific model numbers) stickied in the first page, had 30 days from date of purchase to evaluate the PBO before cutting the UPC and filling the rebate. How long does it take one to realize this is an issue ? go get the best HDMI cable in the market, try all setting and all possible firmware update .. then day or two later you would be left with composite hockups and no official promises of any future fix, why should Patriot take the heat for that ?!

I *might* be able to understand the Sony owners hopes, because the Sony issue was fixed by Realtek shortly after the release of the PBO. A hope for a new firmware fix from Patriot though baseless yet not unrealistic. Its the Toshiba owners (and I have 2 Toshiba sets) insistence on keeping the PBO though there was no hope whatsoever for a Realtek fix that I find incomprehensible. Any way, guess what .. it happened .. Asus managed to get Realtek to do it, and the news came a week ago or so, now the ball is on PM field once more, once Asus goes official with it there will be no excuse for Patriot not to follow suit.

Peace ..

[Koto99]

Are you doubting the Xtreamer firmware quality

No, i have no Xtreamer.
If everything is so great why do not you sell the Patriot and buys a Xtreamer?

If I so unhappy I sell the Patriot and buy a xtreamer. I have done with the Asus as well.

The changes also come from Realtek for the PBO. Only a matter of time. Patriot said yes they are working on several parallel firmwares.

Other companies may be better ok but there are worse. Always a question of perspective as we see the Asus Player.

[snappy46]

some of the funtions have been taken off due to licensing issues. But we are in the process of getting them activated via firmware. For instance, "eject" button is actually used for USB Optical devices. This is already in the works, hopefully soon should be released.

Well it's nice to see where the priority for PM are. Yeah, let us be the first one with a media player that allow an optical drive to be connected. Let's get that edge over our competitors so that when the customers compare different media player they can see that they can do that with ours but not with the other ones. Who cares if the optical drive brand A works fine and brand B does not; it does not matter let's just get that extra feature to give us an edge. New features brings more customers which bring cash/profits; fixing things that do not work right for people that already bought the PBO only stop them for whinning about it. They probably will whine about something else anyway...They probably right:D

I know that those exemple are taking to the extreme and that some people can see through the lack of support on this forum from PM and might decide to purchase a different media player; but at the end of the day if item A has 20 features and item B has only 10 for the same price chances are; people will go for item A because they feel they getting more for their money.

I mean let's face it; anytime you connect a new peripheral to the PBO there will be issues. I can already see the new thread:

"I bought the PBO because it says that I could connect an optical drive to it but the optical drive I bought for it is not being recognized. Anyone as a solution for optical drive brand B. I sent a email to PM but they are not getting back to me please help me"

Sound familiar to anyone; don't get me wrong I do not expect PM to test every optical drive out there; that's impossible. So eventually we'll have a sticky on the top of the page about compatible optical drive.

Now there is nothing wrong with all that as long as some of the previous problems have been identified and corrected. So far those problems have not been corrected and when the first sign of hope arrives (P04) it's a total disasters. Most of us had to downgrade back to P02 just to keep some of the functionality we had previously; and I am not talking about extra functionality or hack; I am talking about stuff that worked out of the box with P01/P02 that no longer worked with P04 (Samba, btpd issues etc...). To be fair I did enjoy the more responsive remote control for a day or two on P04 until all the other issues not working forced me to go back to P02.

I can say for myself that until PM steps up to the plate and start fixing some of the problems that have been identified months ago I can not recommends the PBO to any of my friends. I do not have that many friends so only a small impact on PM. :rolleyes:

...Ahhhhhhhh...... I feel better now after all that ranting. :cool:

[black_valkyrie]

I've simply dealt with this poor purchase by no longer using it. My PBO sits unused. It's probably one of the poorest purchase decisions i've ever made.

if apple or dell or gateway released something as messed up as this it would be subject to a recall.

no amount of internet banter on this site will change my mind. the pbo sucks.

[aasoror]

Yeah, let us be the first one with a media player that allow an optical drive to be connected.

In which parallel universe would that be true ?!
- the old an crappy WDTV had USB DVD Support (http://b-rad.cc/wdtv-firmware-dvd-enabled/) as of March 5th 2009 (yes more than a year ago).
- Xtreamer had USB DVD support since September 2009 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEk0XTrja0E) (couple of months after the launch).
I know exactly what you mean snappy46, but some readers here might simply take the post as is, and start flaming you for trying to deprive them from the latest and greatest feature.


No, i have no Xtreamer.
If everything is so great why do not you sell the Patriot and buys a Xtreamer?

Because not every thing is so great with Xtreamer, but that's on a totally different context, I suggest you check the Xtreamer comparison thread (http://www.patriotmemory.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3032) that tskitishvili has posted. (Beside I don't live in Europe where the Xtreamer is cheaper than PBO).



If I so unhappy I sell the Patriot and buy a xtreamer. I have done with the Asus as well.

I never said I am unhappy with the PBO (man, you really need to start reading the posts (http://www.patriotmem.com/forums/showpost.php?p=17023&postcount=24) you are commenting on), our problem is with Patriot support for the product, not with the product itself.



The changes also come from Realtek for the PBO. Only a matter of time. Patriot said yes they are working on several parallel firmwares.

Well, your enthusiasm is admirable, but (I am sorry to say) baseless. Unless you can construct a factious argument you just a sitting duck for lots of frustrated users in this forum (and trust me they are many).

Edit: This is my 1K post ... yaaaaay

[snappy46]

In which parallel universe would that be true ?!
- the old an crappy WDTV had USB DVD Support (http://b-rad.cc/wdtv-firmware-dvd-enabled/) as of March 5th 2009 (yes more than a year ago).
- Xtreamer had USB DVD support since September 2009 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEk0XTrja0E) (couple of months after the launch).


I stand corrected; my parallel universe is narrower than yours; it still felt good to rant a little !!!

Cheers!

[foxeye]

if apple or dell or gateway released something as messed up as this it would be subject to a recall.

Err...iPad... nuff said

[foxeye]

Edit: This is my 1K post ... yaaaaay
Grats :) And well over 3 times the amount of posts of Patriot staff. I believe CJ promised some sort of point based reward, so perhaps patriot will buy you an Xtreamer? ;)

[jm_maclaren]

I got mine for $85 from Tiger Direct (assuming my rebate clears it says its pending right now) including the wireless dongle and then used bing cashback for another 10% ($18) bringing the cost down to $67 so I really think I got a steal. It streams beautifully from my mythtv backend and I am very happy with it.

I am not brave enough to risk bricking it to try to modify the firmware but I assume things like added dvd player support could be done by the fearless or those who have got an active serial port connection. My worry is that checks the image and won;t allow modified versions to be loaded. I am not sure if anyone has tried, bt in the early days that was what moved the wdtv along nicely.

Anyways on the whole I am very happy with the PBO :). I have spent a lot of time developing mythhroku for the now defunct roku hd1000 (though I still sue mine) and wish that we had access to the sdk to be able to port our own apps. I got this as it has more codec support.

My $0.02
James

[Koto99]

Well, your enthusiasm is admirable, but (I am sorry to say) baseless.
Unless you can construct a factious argument you just a sitting duck for lots of
frustrated users in this forum (and trust me they are many).

???

Patriot CM Say she work on various Firmware parallel. Why should there be a lie?

Therefore see no reason why the firmwares will not come?

I understand that it goes too slow for you, ok.


In which parallel universe would that be true ?! - the old an crappy WDTV
had USB DVD Support as of March 5th 2009 (yes more than a year ago). - Xtreamer
had USB DVD support since September 2009 (couple of months after the
launch).

WDTV can no DVD menus. Find it relatively useless now himself a player has a
feature to search for the argument that the Patriot is doing wrong, but that are
missing from the other device other things. It still brings nothing.

You take something from each company as an example and you tinkering a perfect
player. It would be nice if they would give but that's wishful thinking.

The way I can describe what that Asus makes more, I can enumerate what Xtream
and also makes better Patriot, or others. Bring any one does nothing.

In fact, every player you have to watch his mistakes and has what you can live
best. Of course it would be nice to have the perfect player but that is a
pipedream.

[outatouch0]

grats :) and well over 3 times the amount of posts of patriot staff. I believe cj promised some sort of point based reward, so perhaps patriot will buy you an xtreamer? ;)

roflmao :d

[outatouch0]

It is a very simple rule. We don't flame or insult here. Keep it clean and constructive so everyone benefits. For the most part, the entire thread has been very informative. I don't believe anyone here is perfectly informed over any one else unless you work for any of the companies mentioned: Asus, Patriot, Western Digital, etc.

I think everyone here can agree that all three of the boxes have useful features, yet none of them are perfect. My Asus gives me grief here and there, missing a few features I like. Most of the WD little issues have been manageable. Can't knock the box really based on what it is. If we could magically mold them all together, that would be nice...in a perfect world.

Apparently SOMEONE AT PATRIOT IS PAYING ATTENTION TO THIS FORUM :D
A post of mine was deleted for justifiable (IMHO) use of the F-word. Though they could have left the rest of the message and just deleted that line. Oh well I am just happy to see some modicum of Patriot activity here no matter what it is,
It seems they simply don't respond very often but at least they may be paying attention to us to some degree.

[DeanN]

foxeye[/B]: :) And well over 3 times the amount of posts of Patriot staff. I believe CJ promised some sort of point based reward, so perhaps patriot will buy you an Xtreamer? ;)

Congratulation, aasoror!
You guys make me remember the guy in UP IN THE AIR, he got gift, but aasoror not yet! Another promise from Patriot?

[sj177p]

It appears they have chosen to not give this product as much attention. Unfortunately, having bought the product, I am left with no choice but to stick with it. I am starting to feel like I made a bad choice on the PBO.

[outatouch0]

Koto we are glad to have you here as you bring fresh enthusiasm to the forum along with new ideas.


???
Patriot CM Say she work on various Firmware parallel. Why should there be a lie?

Therefore see no reason why the firmwares will not come?

I understand that it goes too slow for you, ok.


On THIS point you have so often repeated you are simply lacking in experience with your PBO and this forum. You point to statements by CJ as if they are supportive of your argument. However, the exact OPPOSITE is true.
These are just a few of MANY MANY undelivered promises going back to November 2009. Worse than that is the complete lack of followup or acknowledgment and flat out refusal to respond to inquiries, both in the forum and private messages, that they were unable to fulfill them.
The quotes, examples aasoror have provided are only a recent few. We can quote you many more almost verbatim from our own memories. Keep in mind you are "arguing" with a number of members that have read each and every to nearly every post on this forum. Your statements make it clear that you have not. I am not saying you should have to do that before posting - far from it. Just understand that you are new here and can benefit from the experience freely shared by those that have come before you.

MOST IMPORTANTLY
Please understand that most of the threads here are actually discussions amongst PBO ENTHUSIASTS. We are trying to make improvements to the PBO by whatever means that become available to us. Most of the people involved have contributed enough positive input to have earned the right to gripe a bit. ;)
If we had simply taken your advice and returned/threw away our PBO we would not be here and you would not have much of a forum to participate in :)

PS, apologies to you, the mods, and any offended for the earlier flame - I had a long demanding day at work

[pthomas82]

It appears they have chosen to not give this product as much attention. Unfortunately, having bought the product, I am left with no choice but to stick with it. I am starting to feel like I made a bad choice on the PBO.

come on mate - think about what ur saying and ask yourself this question.

Does it do what I want it to do (... ie - play movies)?

I understand if it is having problems with handshaking ur tv through hdmi - that would annoy me. However if you have it working, the PBO plays movies great.

[sj177p]

come on mate - think about what ur saying and ask yourself this question.

Does it do what I want it to do (... ie - play movies)?

I understand if it is having problems with handshaking ur tv through hdmi - that would annoy me. However if you have it working, the PBO plays movies great.

It does play movies. I will give you that. However, this box also allows samba shares. See my post on samba shares - its frustrating that I have to keep on switching the login control on and off for me to get access to it. Even with me being able to copy to it, at times the transfer would stop for some reason. See the post on corrupted files. How long does it take to get a stable new firmware?

[jm_maclaren]

It does play movies. I will give you that. However, this box also allows samba shares. See my post on samba shares - its frustrating that I have to keep on switching the login control on and off for me to get access to it. Even with me being able to copy to it, at times the transfer would stop for some reason. See the post on corrupted files. How long does it take to get a stable new firmware?

Have you tried nfs mouning? While there are nfs servers for windows I haven't tried personally. In my experience the nfs mount from a linux machine is fine. Admittedly on reboot I find it easier to telnet in and make the mount manually rather than using /etc/rcS which I have not had work well because I think the wireless connection takes a little longer to connect.

[aasoror]

Koto99, I do understand that sometimes these posts might look overwhelmingly long, but please don't misquote me, if there is something not clear just let me know and I will clear it up for you, but please don't draw your own conclusions on my post and then comment on them.

So here it is one LAST time, this is getting counter productive really so its going to be the last time for me correcting "my own posts" for you.




Patriot CM Say she work on various Firmware parallel. Why should there be a lie?

Therefore see no reason why the firmwares will not come?

I understand that it goes too slow for you, ok.


I never said they lie. (and by the way, its Patriot_CJ and its he not a she). I said there was lots of unrealized promises, and I have quoted PM representative's own posts (not anyone's else). I use this as bases to argue that Patriot is not taking the PBO support seriously, if you have any bases for a counterargument please provide them.



WDTV can no DVD menus. Find it relatively useless now himself a player has a feature to search for the argument that the Patriot is doing wrong, but that are missing from the other device other things. It still brings nothing.

I didn't compare WDTV to the PBO, if you re-read my post I said "old and crappy WDTV". WDTV (or any other sigma based media player) shouldn't be compared to the PBO. What I CLEARLY mentioned is that DVD playback isn't a cutting edge, missing from all competition feature. Snappy thought that PM was overlooking our humble requests because they wanted to achieve some super futuristic feature. I was just correcting him. You can also note that I didn't put that as a reply on CJ post (because he didn't make that claim), I did write that as a reply on snappy's post.

And by the way, though I didn't dig up features that the PBO missed to build an argument, but wasn't this exactly what you did with your first post in this thread (http://www.patriotmem.com/forums/showpost.php?p=17034&postcount=26) ? you listed only the things that PBO can do as opposed to an outdated firmware version of the Asus O!Play ...?! :rolleyes:

Speaking of which, what do you exactly know about WDTV ? do you know that regardless of its age and deficiencies (mainly DTS down-mix) whenever the WDTV falls to around $60 in US sales WDTV still sell like hot cakes ? the reason is the fact that WD released enough code that made recompiling the WDTV firmware possible .. result ? DVD support for the WDTV, Network support for the WDTV , Movie database and artwork for the WDTV.. features that WD never offered, promised or paid a single penny developing, its literately printing money. I hope Patriot would learn the lesson.



You take something from each company as an example and you tinkering a perfect player. It would be nice if they would give but that's wishful thinking.

Not true, I didn't do that, you compared the O!play to the PBO, I followed suit and compared the O!Play to the PBO. Then you mentioned that the frequency of the updates are comparable, so I compared the Xtreamer to the PBO. I never did compare some mythical Xtreamer/O!Play hybrid with the PBO.



The way I can describe what that Asus makes more, I can enumerate what Xtream and also makes better Patriot, or others. Bring any one does nothing.
In fact, every player you have to watch his mistakes and has what you can live best. Of course it would be nice to have the perfect player but that is a
pipedream.

again this is not true. Thanks to the lack of support PBO is buried deep down the list of media players in terms of features convenience. What you should understand "yaaay it plays everything I throw on it" has nothing to do with Patriot, this is a Realtek SDK related thing. Even this "get for free" features Patriot failed to take benefit of by releasing firmwares based on outdated SDKs at the time of their release.

Though I wouldn't typically do that, but you have asked for it my friend, here is a challenge for you "Give me a SINGLE FEATURE which the PBO does better than the Xtreamer, or which isn't available to the Xtreamer". how hard can that be ..? just one ;)

Its not rocket science, PBO is using the crude generic firmware as provided by Realtek (do you even know why the PBO info screen describes the chipset as DEMO ?) . Xtreamer is using that same very same firmware as a bases for what is currently one of the best and most powerful GUIs in the Realtek based media players market. Xtreamer folks will do whatever humanely possible to make the Xtreamer better and if its not humanely possible they will even lie about it to convince you that there is nothing wrong with their holy Xtreamer. Do you have an idea why ? because if the Xtreamer goes down one night these guys will lose their jobs on the next business day. Now back to the PBO, how many do you think from PM will go unemployed if the whole PBO production line burnt to the ground ..? properly none. you know why ..? because there is currently no one working on the PBO (except that firmware subcontractor which isn't Patriot affiliated by any mean).

Once more, before commenting on this post, please make sure its 100% clear for you, if there is anything thats not crystal clear please let me know I will happily clear it. Then you can get your facts together and argue as much as you like (just get your facts first .. please)

[layzieyez]

I pre-ordered the PBO from amazon because of various reviews I read at the time. I already owned the Asus O!Play, but I decided to buy the PBO since I wanted to put my daughter's child-friendly movies onto the internal drive so it would be easy to shuttle the player to a friend's house for viewing.

When I received it, I installed an internal drive, and loaded it full of movies (all of them played on the O!Play). Imagine my daughter's disappointment when we hosted a movie night, and the movie she wanted to play wouldn't play. Oh well, no problem, I guess I'll just use the O!Play. I came to find out that half of the movies I spent hours importing into the PBO would not play at all or would freeze it.

That's what prompted my first visit to these forums (along with the subtitle issue). I have been patiently waiting for a stable release of firmware to remedy some of the basic problems of the PBO.

Meanwhile, Asus came through with things like internet TV and radio which went far beyond my initial expectations from their product.

I'm still waiting to update my PBO since I don't see the point in updating it to P04 when it's so buggy. I'll wait up to a year for Patriot to fix this. If at that time Patriot doesn't pull through, then I'm taking my PBO to the firing range to shoot it full of holes since that's all it will be good for (seriously, what's the point in stressing any further).

Thankfully, since I own an O!Play, I can patiently wait for new PBO firmware while watching movies that would otherwise frustrate me by not playing if I only owned the PBO.

[JPMG]

After reading all the posts here it seem to just get back to a basic fact.
That is .... the PBO is just a piece of hardware. As such, it has a "sweet spot", where it will work well, satisfy the user and work well.

Anywhere outside the envelope and things get dicey. The frustrating part is that is appears the operational envelope is a bit inside the specs they published. Plus it seems that Patriot did not fully understand a hardware/software combination. They must have figured that the firmware on the box would not really need frequent upgrades. Silly them. But they still have not figures it out ... I mean the shipping units STILL have P02 installed.

It works fine on a hardwired net, so I like it. The few tests on wireless are OK, but not earthshaking. Lucklily the TV's I'm using it on are not the absolute latest or greatest, so they work well.

After playing with it and reading all this back and forth I'm just planning on using them as travel boxes to play on the road, and on the rack to play with. With mini-ITX and pico-ITX mobo's coming down in price and up in features I can build a system about that is about 2x the height and 1.5x the width to accomplish the same thing.

But that does mean tweaking HW and SW, putting it all together, tunining it and the like. As poor as the interface is, the PBO was interesting since it was turn it on, set a few options and play.

Maybe they will update the firmware with a more functional stable release, but I;m not counting on it.

Cheers!
... M ...

[outatouch0]

After reading all the posts here it seem to just get back to a basic fact....

....Maybe they will update the firmware with a more functional stable release, but I;m not counting on it.
Cheers!
... M ...

To do that it seems they will have to update their update process...

[layzieyez]

As poor as the interface is, the PBO was interesting since it was turn it on, set a few options and play.

If it would play your media which in my case resulted in a 50% failure rate while the O!Play has been at 99.9% (I found one out of a thousand movies that made the unit hang up). That's totally unsat.

[JPMG]

Naw ... I just think Patriot stepped out of their own sweet spot when the ventured into the PBO. Just look at their support forums to get a clue. The majority are hardware only (Memory, Flash,Storage Enclosures), with some that need minimal firmware support/upgrade (SSD) and other that use canned firmware that rarely changes once working (NAS).

So I can just see some weenie got the great idea that "hey, media players! .. they use memory, and are a new market ... let's do it. Even better, the chipset vendor supplies the user firmware, we can just ship the demo version!" Oops ... Big Mistake.

So now they have a box that needs firmware/software feeding ... but no process, methods or staff to do it. Ugh, not good.

Start with the point that is is targeting "home users", typically not the most technically savy.
Add to problem the fact that it interfaces with a lot of gear that is changing and has no stable set of standards (TV's, media files, etc).
Add even more fun with wireless and the fun of multiple types of protocols, routers and hardware that (sorta) plays well together.
Add another fun twist that it deals with networking and file sharing, an area that can eat your lunch when it comes to user configuration of shares, access rights and other things.
Then top it off with the Windows XP - Windows 7 file sharing mud pit.
The result ... they don't seem to know where to start.

When it comes to memory testing I am sure that have the test rigs, gear and test systems to make sure that a memory chip is working. And once working there is really nothing that can go wrong. Except for maybe a batch of bad parts, assmebly error or a user zapping a chip. But those are easily determined.

But application testing and development ... they probably have NOTHING related to that. For our software development we had groups of SW developers, a SW testing wing, QA, CM, even a full setup user testing lab with multiple systems/OS configurations to make sure it working inhouse before it was sent to mfg and then to customers. It took time, staff and $$ to set that up and keep it running. Something I don't think Patriot has.

They might have been sold a load of crap by their supplier that the supplier would be keeping up with the firmware changes and supplying regular updates. Again, silly Patriot. Most hardware OEM vendors will happily supply demo code so you can use their functions fast and out of the box .. but most are NOT in the business of updating and keeping the code current. Their business is moving silicon, not software.

So it just seems that Patriot is in over their heads. There are so many issues to address on multiple fronts that they can not get the hands on any single one and solve it completely. The units keep selling (good for their busines), but every bunch sold uncovers another problem or incompatibilty they need to address ... adding even more problems to their queue.

So unless they focus some people and $$ on solving some very key problems, it will just be a cycle where each sale just makes their problems worse.

The two probable scenarios are possible.

The first is that they get their heads out of their butts, focus on something and move in the right direction. The result would be working firmware, better functions, a stable system and decent GUI.

The second is that they throw in the towel, and we all see the units at the fire sale outlet places for $20 or so a unit and stock up on them. Hopefully they would also release the source and it would be picked up by the "community". Right now all the pipe dreams of the "community" taking over the care and feeding of the software is a fantasy, primarily due to the high unit price. But if they dump them and the price hits the floor, so many will be available cheaply, that it might create the critical mass to have user support and extension take off.

Just my two cents.

Cheers!
... M ...

[aasoror]

If it would play your media which in my case resulted in a 50% failure rate while the O!Play has been at 99.9% (I found one out of a thousand movies that made the unit hang up). That's totally unsat.

Not to drift the thread, but are you still on P01 firmware by any chance ..? because on P01 I had a 30% success rate for my MKVs (as reported by most users as well), under P02 every single one of my MKVs play (regardless of size, resolution or bitrate).

[outatouch0]

The first is that they get their heads out of their butts, focus on something and move in the right direction. The result would be working firmware, better functions, a stable system and decent GUI.

The second is that they throw in the towel, and we all see the units at the fire sale outlet places for $20 or so a unit and stock up on them. Hopefully they would also release the source and it would be picked up by the "community". Right now all the pipe dreams of the "community" taking over the care and feeding of the software is a fantasy, primarily due to the high unit price. But if they dump them and the price hits the floor, so many will be available cheaply, that it might create the critical mass to have user support and extension take off.

There is a 3rd scenario that can be a win-win for all concerned. If the real source code should somehow;) ... become available...
The user community WOULD BE ABLE TO take over the thing and create a fully functional box. Now there would be a real reason to choose PBO over the others. Increased sales above margin prices profits both Patriot and Realtek even if their proprietary souce should somehow get out.

[JPMG]

Hmm ... option #3 does sound interesting.

Perhaps if CJ or another overworked and unserpaid Patriot minion reads this, you never know what happens.

Bits fall off servers everyday it seems. With rapidshare, hongfire and the rest ... well anything is possible !

However ... if the software happens to escape on 01 April ... I would be a bit suspect.

Cheers!
... M ...

[Amowagou]

When I received it, I installed an internal drive, and loaded it full of movies (all of them played on the O!Play). Imagine my daughter's disappointment when we hosted a movie night, and the movie she wanted to play wouldn't play. Oh well, no problem, I guess I'll just use the O!Play. I came to find out that half of the movies I spent hours importing into the PBO would not play at all or would freeze it.



Care to explain what file types which you can't play from the PBO? How did you transfer your files from PC to the PBO? Perhaps you can try transferring the problematic files again directly from the PC to the PBO via USB connections.

For me, other than Blu-ray ISO, I have yet to find any file cannot be played by the PBO.

[outatouch0]

Care to explain what file types which you can't play from the PBO? How did you transfer your files from PC to the PBO? Perhaps you can try transferring the problematic files again directly from the PC to the PBO via USB connections.

For me, other than Blu-ray ISO, I have yet to find any file cannot be played by the PBO.

+1
Yes I wondered about this as well

[Nugpot]

+1
Yes I wondered about this as well

There is A LOT of media the PBO cant play. Not stating that the O!Play can play them, but just for you guys that think the PBO can play it all. When I got the PBO, I tried 4 media files. Yes, the usual DivX movie files you get everywhere, and YES, it played, whoohoo. But then I tried some videos I created with a digital camera, no go. Then some videos I created with a professional high end big brand 24fps video camera, no go. So I tried anther DivX movie.... which worked...hmmm doesn't seem to be that good at all, tested 4 files, 2 worked. This is just a small example, I am currently trying to play some MKV file that splatter my screen with garbage green blue and purple blothces. And no, the file is not corrupt. I have it on an external HDD and it plays fine under VLC media player on my PC. Some smaller MKV files do work on the PBO though, this means some more non compliance, and I tested this on firmware 2 and 4. PBO - FAIL. Unless you play some divx files, but then again. My blu ray also plays these DivX files from usb with no problem.... so whats so great about the PBO... not much.

[gmd024]

Just a heads up -- I can stream BD content as MKV's made with MakeMKV over a wireless n router to a wireless N Bridge which is then connected to the PBO through a 10/100 5 port switch that connects to the bridge via a wire

I use the bridge/5 port switch to connect a Netflix/You Tube internet enabled BD player and a networked external hard drive also

Once in "Great" while an MKV might 'hick-up' - but simple pausing it a resuming play immediately resolves it -- the very few times the MKV's freeze on me is NOT at all an issue --- relocating the bridge until I get singal strength in the upper 80's% and it shows 300Mbts fixes any further issues while viewing the MKV

Using P04 and bc 18

[billcat]

There is A LOT of media the PBO cant play. Not stating that the O!Play can play them, but just for you guys that think the PBO can play it all. When I got the PBO, I tried 4 media files. Yes, the usual DivX movie files you get everywhere, and YES, it played, whoohoo. But then I tried some videos I created with a digital camera, no go. Then some videos I created with a professional high end big brand 24fps video camera, no go. So I tried anther DivX movie.... which worked...hmmm doesn't seem to be that good at all, tested 4 files, 2 worked. This is just a small example, I am currently trying to play some MKV file that splatter my screen with garbage green blue and purple blothces. And no, the file is not corrupt. I have it on an external HDD and it plays fine under VLC media player on my PC. Some smaller MKV files do work on the PBO though, this means some more non compliance, and I tested this on firmware 2 and 4. PBO - FAIL. Unless you play some divx files, but then again. My blu ray also plays these DivX files from usb with no problem.... so whats so great about the PBO... not much.

I know that cams have a proprietary format that might need conversion to play on the PBO but I have yet to find an mkv that doesn't play ... and I've tested LOADS of those with P02. Sounds like maybe something is wrong with your unit or the handshake to your tv.

[groch]

I have not had the problem playing media....except for WMV version 8 files which I understand is a chipset issue.

I do think the firesale of remaining stock is the most likely scenario. I just picked up a Kodak HD theater for $55 for what seems to be the same reason. Kodak stepped to far from their competancies and realized the constant investment in software/firmware would not be worth the payback.

That said, PBO does the basics of what I need right now, I transcode to the flavors it takes, and like having a portable player with HDisk I can take anywhere.

[Nugpot]

I know that cams have a proprietary format that might need conversion to play on the PBO but I have yet to find an mkv that doesn't play ... and I've tested LOADS of those with P02. Sounds like maybe something is wrong with your unit or the handshake to your tv.

I am not saying its not playing, if you read my post youl notice that I say that smaller mkv's that I tried worked fine, but some larger ones (read carefully) do play... but they start drawing blotches of green, purple and blue on the edges of the images while playing. which of course makes this useless to watch, especially as this is not only large mkv, but full HD 1080p quality. Sound works, and the PBO thinks it playing it, and it does, but with a lot of extra garbage on the screen. Tested this with P02 and P04, same problem. Ill take few pictures and post it for my next tantrim post ;).

cheers.

[aasoror]

I am not saying its not playing, if you read my post youl notice that I say that smaller mkv's that I tried worked fine, but some larger ones (read carefully) do play... but they start drawing blotches of green, purple and blue on the edges of the images while playing. which of course makes this useless to watch, especially as this is not only large mkv, but full HD 1080p quality. Sound works, and the PBO thinks it playing it, and it does, but with a lot of extra garbage on the screen. Tested this with P02 and P04, same problem. Ill take few pictures and post it for my next tantrim post ;).

cheers.

I would check the specs of the MKV file first .


the Box Office has the same MKV compatibility as Blu-Ray player in that both appliances support only (up to) Level 4 of H.264 and not the newer Level 5. What this means is that max reference frames is 4 @ 1920×1080 and 9 @ 1280×720.

My higher profile MKVs with 40 mbps bit rate, would display similar pattern to the one that you are describing. Mind you, then never worked on bluray player as well, and it took heck of tweaking to get them to play smoothly on my dual core 4GB HTPC.

On a related subject, file compatibility issue is Realtek SDK related. Based on the change log of the latest Xtreamer and Asus O!Play firmwares, it seemed that the newer SDKs, which the PBO is missing, didn't offer any extra file compatibility. So I would if there is tons of files which plays on O!Play yet the PBO doesn't and the PBO is on P02 I would consider a faulty PBO possibility.

I am also not sure that any media player would be legitimately playing proprietary encoded avi's (camcorders), because they simply need to pay money for licensing and such (more cost for enduser for a feature that only a fraction of the endusers could take benefit of). Most camcorders manufacturers now are switching to non-proprietary codecs to be more appealing.

[Nugpot]

... (up to) Level 4 of H.264 and not the newer Level 5. What this means is that max reference frames is 4 @ 1920×1080 and 9 @ 1280×720...


Okay, this is useful feedback! Thanks Aasoror. At least now I now know its probably the PBO that cant handle the new Level 5 and not some other weird problem. Now I need some software to convert the files back to Level 4 or some sort of format the PBO can play! in HD preferably!

Funny thing is: I though the PBO is supposed to be a HD player. HD meaning that it can play 1080p videos. Now it sounds like it can't, as 4 fps is not doing it? what the hell! &!@#% :mad:

Any case... do anyone out there know if there is any way I can see some good quality picture from my PBO as I was hoping to use this as a test for my new TV's quality... sigh, you just cant win with the PBO (unless you watch you tube videos on it.....) using a transcoder as PBO dont know nothing about file formats... as it seems none of the software that all play these formats need to pay any licensing.

[outatouch0]

... And no, the file is not corrupt. I have it on an external HDD and it plays fine under VLC media player on my PC...
Nug, I have seen such statements here before. I finally have to say it. There is really no comparison to anything, any media player - software or hardware - that is reasonable and justified. That is like comparing apples and oranges to solid gold bricks.
VLC plays 99% of everything, corrupt files or not. If you put a slice of salami into your computer CD/DVD drive and open it with VLC it will show you a movie about how the salami was made.

[aasoror]

Funny thing is: I though the PBO is supposed to be a HD player. HD meaning that it can play 1080p videos. Now it sounds like it can't, as 4 fps is not doing it? what the hell! &!@#% :mad:


I need to correct you on that ..
its not 4 fps (frames per seconds), its 4 reference frames. Simply put, to be able to compress the a moving picture you don't keep all details of each single frame (each frame would be a complete picture), instead it only stores the changes between frames (thus keeping only the parts of each frames) this dramatically reduces size without any effect on picture quality.

Problem: keeping track of these changes and reconstructing the frames is time and processing resources consuming, thus you need faster machines to run compressed vids.

workaround: you can do better by trying to predict this change (based on the previous frames you have seen), and prepare the frame (or most of it) before its turn to be displayed.

Reference frames: this refers to the number of past frames that you check to predict the contents of the next frame. Expectedly, the more you look back in time the more accurate your prediction, but again, the more processing power needed.

The PBO as well as all current gen MKV capable BR-Players can only look at the past 4 frames (in 1080p frame) and 9 frames (in 720p frame).

here is more info about ref frames (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reference_frame_%28video%29), and video compression (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B-frame).

[The Globule]

If you put a slice of salami into your computer CD/DVD drive and open it with VLC it will show you a movie about how the salami was made.

I think I just trashed my DVD drive... :(:p

[aasoror]

as it seems none of the software that all play these formats need to pay any licensing.

Propriety codecs plays on your PC because the propriety codec holder (the Camcorder manufacturers) provides the decoders freely (else you want be able to run those vids on your PC).

Once the decoder installs (typically with the camcorder software), it will be placed with the shared libraries, thus all other software players that you use will be able to use it.

If it weren't for that first software installation, no program whatsoever would have been able to play those files (or the manufacturer provides MS with the decoders thus they are installed by default)

[layzieyez]

Care to explain what file types which you can't play from the PBO? How did you transfer your files from PC to the PBO? Perhaps you can try transferring the problematic files again directly from the PC to the PBO via USB connections.

For me, other than Blu-ray ISO, I have yet to find any file cannot be played by the PBO.
All the files that were problematic were MKV (not even 1080p but 720p). As I stated O!Play played all of them except one. My computer can play all of them on VLC. PBO played about half. All transferred to a newly formatted drive (formatted by PBO) via USB. Same files on external harddrive resulted in the same results. Same for USB flash drive. Feel my pain yet? I'm not re-transferring files since that's hours of wasted time that my O!Play hasn't made me do so why should I do it for the PBO since it is *gasp* superior.

[aasoror]

All the files that were problematic were MKV (not even 1080p but 720p). As I stated O!Play played all of them except one. My computer can play all of them on VLC. PBO played about half. All transferred to a newly formatted drive (formatted by PBO) via USB. Same files on external harddrive resulted in the same results. Same for USB flash drive. Feel my pain yet? I'm not re-transferring files since that's hours of wasted time that my O!Play hasn't made me do so why should I do it for the PBO since it is *gasp* superior.

I am not sure if I missed it, but did you mention which firmware version is running on your PBO ?

[layzieyez]

I am not sure if I missed it, but did you mention which firmware version is running on your PBO ?

I haven't updated my PBO at all since purchase since it doesn't look like they've even got updating successfully implemented, yet. I don't care to remove my internal drive AND still risk bricking. It still seems like a gamble. Meanwhile, I've successfully updated my O!Play twice. And, no I'm not an Asus troll. I just want the promises made about the PBO that made me buy it in the first place fulfilled. I don't even care about networking anymore since it wouldn't do it with Win7 out of the box. I just want it to play mkv as successfully as the O!Play. That's it. And it still doesn't seem to do that even after updating according to some of the posts I've read.

[outatouch0]

I haven't updated my PBO at all since purchase since it doesn't look like they've even got updating successfully implemented, yet. I don't care to remove my internal drive AND still risk bricking. It still seems like a gamble. Meanwhile, I've successfully updated my O!Play twice. And, no I'm not an Asus troll. I just want the promises made about the PBO that made me buy it in the first place fulfilled. I don't even care about networking anymore since it wouldn't do it with Win7 out of the box. I just want it to play mkv as successfully as the O!Play. That's it. And it still doesn't seem to do that even after updating according to some of the posts I've read.

These sound like solvable problems with a little help here in the forums.
I updated to P02 quite easily - because I followed the directions (must use FAT32 USB stick which is not in the directions). If you look at the threads on failed updates the operator went with what he/she must have wanted or wished the instructions said rather than what they actually say.
You can connect just fine with Win7. There is even a sticky and plenty of smart people here that have done it to help you.

Having said that, is the PBO perfect - no!
It has its problems. I imagine the Oplay does as well or so many Oplay owners wouldn't also have PBO's ?

[aasoror]

I haven't updated my PBO at all since purchase since it doesn't look like they've even got updating successfully implemented, yet.
....
And it still doesn't seem to do that even after updating according to some of the posts I've read.

You don't know how lucky you are, you are complaining about issues that already solved by an available firmware but you aren't willing to install because of the risk of bricking your player ..?!

And you rely on "some" reports about incompatibility, disregarding the absolutely crushing majority of reports about resolved compatibility after P02.

Well, its your PBO and your call buddy, not mine ..

Peace

[DeanN]

I haven't updated my PBO at all since purchase since it doesn't look like they've even got updating successfully implemented, yet. I don't care to remove my internal drive AND still risk bricking. It still seems like a gamble. Meanwhile, I've successfully updated my O!Play twice. And, no I'm not an Asus troll. I just want the promises made about the PBO that made me buy it in the first place fulfilled. I don't even care about networking anymore since it wouldn't do it with Win7 out of the box. I just want it to play mkv as successfully as the O!Play. That's it. And it still doesn't seem to do that even after updating according to some of the posts I've read.

I understand why you updated firmware for the O!Play twice and not with the PBO, but you didn't treated them with the same ground level!

[layzieyez]

Yes you need to do remove the HDD, while we don't know for sure if its mandatory, but based on trial and error, the user who have removed the HDD has been having a more smooth update. (no guarantees though)

As long as I see advice like this, then no, I'm not updating. I should not have to open up this thing and remove the harddrive every time I want to update (seriously!?). It should be guaranteed that my update will not brick my PBO WITH harddrive installed. Is that really too much to ask for?

It is risk versus reward. So far, the reward doesn't outweigh the risk. As I said, I don't even care about the networking with Win7 (I'm over it). Maybe when I hear good news like a stable firmware based on the updated SDK with a foolproof update process that can be undone if someone screws up (without RMA to Patriot), then I'll bother to update. Until then, thanks for the advice, your opinions are noted, but as I said, I'm not stuck with one way to view my movies and I'll just keep waiting for up to a year for Patriot to get their act together. If not, then bang bang. I'll just shoot it dead.

[Korbis]

I'm beginning to notice a pattern developing with all the media players on the market. The ones that share the same internal design(PBO, Hornettek, etc.) across different brands have little to no firmware development while the ones that are proprietary constantly put out firmware updates.

Patriot's road plan relied on outsourcing its firmware releases to a third party for a rock bottom price given the fact nothing will stop it from being used on other branded players sharing the same internals.

[outatouch0]

As long as I see advice like this, then no, I'm not updating. I should not have to open up this thing and remove the harddrive every time I want to update (seriously!?). It should be guaranteed that my update will not brick my PBO WITH harddrive installed. Is that really too much to ask for?

It is risk versus reward. So far, the reward doesn't outweigh the risk. As I said, I don't even care about the networking with Win7 (I'm over it). Maybe when I hear good news like a stable firmware based on the updated SDK with a foolproof update process that can be undone if someone screws up (without RMA to Patriot), then I'll bother to update. Until then, thanks for the advice, your opinions are noted, but as I said, I'm not stuck with one way to view my movies and I'll just keep waiting for up to a year for Patriot to get their act together. If not, then bang bang. I'll just shoot it dead.

Note: you are quoting (honest) advice from a forum member and not someone from Patriot. As for "no guarantees," show me anything that truly is guaranteed in life besides death and taxes...

Well, I feel like saying simply, "enjoy your PBO" and move on. However I am willing to give you one last try simply because we are here to seek PBO solutions because there are issues that, together we can beat rather than letting it beat us. ;)

First let me say I AGREE WITH YOU! :D
We SHOULD not have to go to the measures we go through to get anywhere from minimal to optimal functionality out of our PBO's.
The unfortunate reality is, the box we ACTUALLY HAVE does not (yet ;) ) perform up to it's full capabilities.

This brings us to the first decision point: accept the PBO we actually have or return it, sell it, shoot it (I have considered this one too) and try to find the media player we feel we should have. I have yet to hear of anyone being successful on finding the latter (should have).

What I can tell you is that with some reading and some help you can have your PBO mostly functional and effective. The internal HDD is a MUST HAVE for this box and IMO the single saving grace for the PBO. The PBO works great from its internal drive :D and for that I absolutely love it. Loved it so much I went and bought a big screen HD TV and I don't even subscribe to sat/cable service!

I can almost guarantee ;) you can get yourself to this point with relatively minimal effort, a bit of reading, and some FREE help from the great people on this forum. If you, like many of us, see the potential in this little box of ours and want to take it on as a hobby of sorts then great - happy to have you. If not that is okay too but I would advise you to shoot it today.

So it turns out this box is not really fit for a consumer end product (PLUG and Play/Pray) but rather a tweaker/hackers delight (mostly pray lol). I am nowhere near as skilled as many of the members here but I can tell you I have learned A LOT of cool stuff on networking and now learning a bit of linux (which I can't even spell yet). All of this with the help of some great people I have met here.

In closing, I invite you to join us in this cool little community - lets have some fun.
Happy Hunting
Out

[aasoror]

As long as I see advice like this, then no, I'm not updating. I should not have to open up this thing and remove the harddrive every time I want to update (seriously!?). It should be guaranteed that my update will not brick my PBO WITH harddrive installed. Is that really too much to ask for?


Just clear things up, I am by no means urging you to update/not to update your PBO. As noted earlier, its you call. I am just saying, comparing an O!Play that already had two updates installed on it with a PBO with outdated firmware just invalidates the argument (especially given the fact the PBO is no longer shipped with P01 as of Dec 2009 and that upgrading from P02 to P04 doesn't require a HDD reformat).

That said, a totally valid point would be comparing the fool proof Asus O!Play update procedure (I am quoting you here, as I don't have an O!Play) to the troublesome, blink-N-brick your box PBO update procedure.

Once more, I am yet to see a poster who failed to unbrick his PBO and needed to RMA it (except for a single poster), yet, this is barely statistically sound, as there might be tons of users who were frustrated beyond posting here.



Patriot's road plan relied on outsourcing its firmware releases to a third party for a rock bottom price given the fact nothing will stop it from being used on other branded players sharing the same internals.

There is no other branded players sharing the same internals, these are all clones, and they aren't individually developing firmwares, they are all banging the doors of the source for updates. (Patriot enjoys claiming they are the owner of the reference design and that they have sold several de-branded shipments to Mascool .. Hornettek .. etc, not to mention that several shipments also got leaked from their production plant, though I have my own reasons to think otherwise, yet it doesn't really make difference end result is the same, in fact this makes them more responsible than any other scenario).

The PBO is as proprietary as O!Play or Xtreamer, the only difference is that companies behind those mentioned products are interested in taking development in their hands (or at least actively monitoring the outsourced development), while Patriot isn't .. (or at least isn't giving us any sign to prove otherwise).

[layzieyez]

That's part of the reason why I quoted aasoror instead of Ben or CJ since he has more posts than both of them combined and is probably the most credible source on this forum.

I have enough hack projects to finish to take on yet another one. To be honest, I was just hoping Patriot had plagiarized the work of Asus so development would be ahead by the time the PBO arrived. Silly me.

By the way, the O!Play played all the files before I even updated it once.

[JPMG]

I pre-ordered the PBO from amazon ...

Thankfully, since I own an O!Play, I can patiently wait for new PBO firmware while watching movies that would otherwise frustrate me by not playing if I only owned the PBO.

Today I ran into a similar problem, and I am deeply worried.

I "acquired" some movies and went to play them, not all would play. These were hi definition MKV files. I guess based on the chatter here I should blame the system and the manufacturer. Then get a new unit from a different company.

Oops ... one rub in the situation.

The system it FAILED on was an Intel D945CGLF2 with a nVidia GeForce 8400 GS, runing the latest Win XP and the latest K-Lite Codec Pack.

Even worse ... all of them played perfectly on the PBO.

:)

But there is a point to this ... basically what is the SOURCE of the videos that failed?
There are many sources for various video files out there (wink-wink) and not ALL of them follow standards as to encoding methods.

Reading this I have not seen a great deal of complaints from those who personally rip the media in their physical possesion to a disk so they can watch it on another system. Most of them read from folks who just happened to have an MKV or other type of file from "somewhere". When asked specific encong questions the answers usually come back a bit vaque, so it is doubfull that they copied them from their personal disk, ran an encoding application and created the MKV. Rather it "just appeared". Granted, there are a few who have created videos from their own camcorders, but in those cases the question comes up of propietary codecs from the cam manufacturer.

My point is .... I could see justified upset if I purchased a legitimate retail BluRay disk, inserted it into a BluRay player and the disk would not play.
In that case getting upset with the manufacturer of the BluRay player would be valid.

But in most of these cases .... hmmm.

I guess if the file doen't play on the PBO you can take the file back and get what you paid for it ... right ??? :) :) :)

Or put another way .... if I pour mud into the gas tank of my Crown Vic and it does not run, should I complain to Ford ??


Just a few thoughts.
Cheers!
... M ...

[aasoror]

But there is a point to this ... basically what is the SOURCE of the videos that failed? There are many sources for various video files out there (wink-wink) and not ALL of them follow standards as to encoding methods.


LMAO .. ;) you need to check here (http://www.patriotmem.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3289)then, can't get more blunt.

Yet layzieyez problem is quit different, he is complaining about the heavily reported MKV bug with P01 (as I said before, I got 33% success rate for my MKVs). To their credit P02 (that fixes this problem) was released here shortly after the PBO launched, but it wasn't until a month later that they started shipping it. (even then my 2nd unit bought in Feb 2010 had P01 on it).

The problem is *and you can't blame him* he doesn't want to upgrade for the fear of bricking his player (which is possible with any upgradable hardware .. most motherboard manufacturer will post disclaimers saying that if the changelog doesn't directly address your issues then don't upgrade). Yet the problem here is magnified due to the lack of proper upgrade instructions from Patriot + the need to reformat the HDD after P01 -> P02 upgrade. Not to mention the infectious reports about P04 upgrade failure.

[JPMG]

Sorry to hear he is stuck on P01 ... luckliy mine shipped with P02 and based on what I ahve read I will NOT touch P04 with a ten foot Cat5 cable.

Sadly, it seems he has made a decision but still does not want to live with it. The fear of bricking may be justified, as you said ANY firmware upgrade runs a risk for exisitng data and the disk format sounds like a pain.

But there was a choice:
a) Upgrade to P02 - Get to play MKV files, maybe brick system.
b) Do not upgrade to P02 - System runs but does not play al MKVs

He took the choice of safety, not to upgrade. It was his choice/decision and he should move on. Had he bricked the box it would be a pain but he could RMA it with Patriot.

Back to my comparisions ....

I can get on a freeway and decide to only go 35mph. That way I avoid the risk of accidents and can be totally safe.
But once I get to my destination, I really should not complain about how long it took me to get there :)

Maybe it's due to the fact that the PBO is a box, looks like a box and seems like a box ... like a basic cheap switch. I look over at my Linksys gigabit switch and wish it would do jumbo frames, but it will not. It's just a box.

Yet the PBO is actually a small, single board computer running linux and the like. I would LIKE to be able to tune it like my HTPC and other computers, and sometimes think I should since it IS a computer and thus I should be able to do it. Maybe if it seemed a bit (even more) stupid folks would just accept that it has warts and that would be that. But the problem is that is DOES have potential, and that is being held up by (Patriot, Realtek, God, Demons)(Take your pick).

On the shelf and see an older (2 years old) media player. The kind that was the size of an external 2.5 USB disk enclosure. It connected to the TV, has a menu, reads media, plays it, can be used as an external USB drive etc. But it is dumb. A specific set of supported formats. No way to communicate with it from the outside (Lan or wireless). It was small, cheap and worked. Granted you have to convert odd media first, but it played. Much as it was a pain ... it was what it was.

Unless Patriot gets their (pick your favorite appendige) out of their (pick your favorite orfice) it seems like the PBO will have the same fate.

Cheers!
... M ...

[aasoror]

Unless Patriot gets their (pick your favorite appendige) out of their (pick your favorite orfice) it seems like the PBO will have the same fate.


This thread just got 5 stars from me ;)

[layzieyez]

@JMPG
Why K-lite? Everyone I know is using the CCCP and it supports every codec I've ever ran into.

My rig has a intel i7 chip, with 6GB of triple channel memory, and a GTX 285 card running win7 64 bit ultimate. No problems running HD, emulators, or anything else I've thrown at it. It is a wet dream of a computer that's pretty future proofed (at least for another 5 years).

[JPMG]

K-Lite vs CCCP --- or Potatoe vs Pototoe ... all the same thing.
Each has its followers, plus and minus points.

I went with K-Lite several years back after some glitches with CCCP and just stayed with it. It has worked with everthing I have thrown at it (except for those odd HD MKVs) so for me it works. When a new version comes up I just DL it to the app load server so I can update various boxes when the need arises.

I went the other direction from the "superbox" approach.
Instead targeted systems.
Units in the cars and truck are all low power Atom 330's with SSD boot disks. The video player unit on the rack is also a low Atom 330 based since it is on all the time. HTPC units range from Atoms to dual core Intel's to triple core AMD's. The majority of data servers on the data rack are dual CPU Xeons. Most of the OS and test boxes on the app rack are basic 1U P4 units. Even a few VIA based systems living on the network booting from CF cards doing duty as routers and firewalls. If I need major crunching I have a dual CPU/dual core unit and a dual CPU/quad core that can pretty much chew up anything I throw at them.

I find it easier to keep it a box clean for specific uses then to bog it down trying to do everthing and getting app and tool conflicts.

But ... everyone designs their systems differently, that's why there are 31 flavors of ice cream. :)

Cheers!
... M ...

[shawnph]

Regarding the subject of this post...

I don't really care if Patriot never releases another firmware update. Despite a few gripes about the remote, the UI, flakey wireless, it's still the best piece of hardware for this purpose at this price point. I've bought 3 of them and am satisfied enough I'm ordering a 4th in a few minutes from now for my media room.

Good job, Patriot.

[aasoror]

Regarding the subject of this post...

I don't really care if Patriot never releases another firmware update. Despite a few gripes about the remote, the UI, flakey wireless, it's still the best piece of hardware for this purpose at this price point. I've bought 3 of them and am satisfied enough I'm ordering a 4th in a few minutes from now for my media room.

Good job, Patriot.

Man .. I really hope PM isn't seeing this post (though I am sure Patriot_Ben has just seen it).

Not all the buyers had the pleasure of buying it at the dirt-cheap-lets-clear-our-stuck-since-launch-inventory prices like you did. Even in Canada sale prices are still hovering around $100/$129 (with/with no rebate). Not to mention your fellow members in the European market who are still paying 100 Euros (which is the same price tags lots of other players carry there).

That said, even for the NA market, O!Play list price has fallen to $99 with sales bringing it as low as $80, still a viable competition for lots of the PBO who don't need or wouldnt use an HDD (esp due to overheat concerns).

Playing the same tune.. if the price is right .. would you also not care about warranty service ..? if its cheap enough you can also buy another if that one fails .. so here you go .. "Patriot .. we really don't care about warranty .. shed off $10~$20 and sell the PBO as is" ... ;)

[blocked]

Sorry to hear he is stuck on P01 ... luckliy mine shipped with P02 and based on what I ahve read I will NOT touch P04 with a ten foot Cat5 cable.

Sadly, it seems he has made a decision but still does not want to live with it. The fear of bricking may be justified, as you said ANY firmware upgrade runs a risk for exisitng data and the disk format sounds like a pain.

But there was a choice:
a) Upgrade to P02 - Get to play MKV files, maybe brick system.
b) Do not upgrade to P02 - System runs but does not play al MKVs

He took the choice of safety, not to upgrade. It was his choice/decision and he should move on. Had he bricked the box it would be a pain but he could RMA it with Patriot.

Back to my comparisions ....

I can get on a freeway and decide to only go 35mph. That way I avoid the risk of accidents and can be totally safe.
But once I get to my destination, I really should not complain about how long it took me to get there :)

Maybe it's due to the fact that the PBO is a box, looks like a box and seems like a box ... like a basic cheap switch. I look over at my Linksys gigabit switch and wish it would do jumbo frames, but it will not. It's just a box.

Yet the PBO is actually a small, single board computer running linux and the like. I would LIKE to be able to tune it like my HTPC and other computers, and sometimes think I should since it IS a computer and thus I should be able to do it. Maybe if it seemed a bit (even more) stupid folks would just accept that it has warts and that would be that. But the problem is that is DOES have potential, and that is being held up by (Patriot, Realtek, God, Demons)(Take your pick).

On the shelf and see an older (2 years old) media player. The kind that was the size of an external 2.5 USB disk enclosure. It connected to the TV, has a menu, reads media, plays it, can be used as an external USB drive etc. But it is dumb. A specific set of supported formats. No way to communicate with it from the outside (Lan or wireless). It was small, cheap and worked. Granted you have to convert odd media first, but it played. Much as it was a pain ... it was what it was.

Unless Patriot gets their (pick your favorite appendige) out of their (pick your favorite orfice) it seems like the PBO will have the same fate.

Cheers!
... M ...

It would be nice to write a comprehensive review at amazon and tigerdirect/circuitcity comparing patriot and asus oplay and complaining about the lack of firmware updates, so that the future patriots don't feel sorry for their uninformed choice. :)

[watcher]

1st off my intro---> I run a quad core AMD proc on a hard wired lan running win7 64 bit.... Watch a Toshiba TV (not HDTV) or my big wide screen Acer flat monitor and have it all wired into my vintage 70's Sansui stereo system ( big, real chrome with knobs and huge speakers) for a kind of low-brow home entertainment set up........ ( I love a mix of new and old technology ). I even still have a turntable and records!...have my TT wired into my computer so I can rip vinyl (as well as cassettes & 8tracks) into mp3's and other off the wall hobbies.

ANYWAY------------------->

I bought mine ( the PBO) from NewEgg for $85 & got an extended 1 year more on the warranty for an additional $5 ( sales-codes- auto rebates add up). I just want mine to play .Avi, Mpg and such to my TV. Also wanted to rip all my Dvd's to .iso files and store in an easy to get manner on a big ass HD. I use an external USB hot swap HD rack that holds 2 - 2 tb. drives at once. NO need for the internal HDD...... and it copies files over my lan ( hardwired) no problems. But to be honest this is not even a issue for me as I have a hot swap HD bay in my computer and also the above mentioned hot swap HD rack.

I'm very happy with how it plays almost everything out of the box. I upgraded to PO4 before I read there were issues for some. I've not experienced PO2 that it shipped with.

The menu is clunky, the remote is kinda weird. But it's my first media player and I'm satisfied at this point with how it runs, especially for the price.

I can see the potential for it....... love the aluminum case and the hook ups. No heat issues as I use the external HD and off my LAN.......... zero fan noise......sits there running cool as it can be this way too.

My son just bought an Asus Oplay. My PBO got him looking but he thought the Asus looked better. Will look at it and post my impressions on this VS the PBO L8R. ( I may end up owning both...ya never know, lol)

Yeah, it ain't perfect. But so far it seems worth the price I paid. Beats the hell out of converting everything and burning it to DVD or watching it on my computer. ( which was my main purpose for the purchase in the first place)

And hopefully.......... "HOPEFULLY" some updates will come along to improve the short comings I see like the menu and maybe add a few more extras.

Anyway........ that's the take on it from a person who is very computer/electronics literate, although not a programming wizard or a person expecting a "do everything box" with no flaws.

I guess I'm kinda easy to please because I had low expectations from the get go and still remember 100MB hd's running off 32 mb ram and Pentium II procs with a 32000 baud connection & thinking I was really blazing along............ :p:p:p:p


BTW--------> Great forum here with really helpful and thoughtful folks participating.

THANKS FOR THAT PEOPLE! Makes the whole PBO experience that much better.
:)

[layzieyez]

K-Lite vs CCCP --- or Potatoe vs Pototoe ... all the same thing.
Each has its followers, plus and minus points.

I went with K-Lite several years back after some glitches with CCCP and just stayed with it. It has worked with everthing I have thrown at it (except for those odd HD MKVs) so for me it works. When a new version comes up I just DL it to the app load server so I can update various boxes when the need arises.

I went the other direction from the "superbox" approach.
Instead targeted systems.
Units in the cars and truck are all low power Atom 330's with SSD boot disks. The video player unit on the rack is also a low Atom 330 based since it is on all the time. HTPC units range from Atoms to dual core Intel's to triple core AMD's. The majority of data servers on the data rack are dual CPU Xeons. Most of the OS and test boxes on the app rack are basic 1U P4 units. Even a few VIA based systems living on the network booting from CF cards doing duty as routers and firewalls. If I need major crunching I have a dual CPU/dual core unit and a dual CPU/quad core that can pretty much chew up anything I throw at them.

I find it easier to keep it a box clean for specific uses then to bog it down trying to do everthing and getting app and tool conflicts.

But ... everyone designs their systems differently, that's why there are 31 flavors of ice cream. :)

Cheers!
... M ...
Since you experienced problems with CCCP several years back, I'd encourage you to check it out since the updated version is from 9/9/2009 so it's worth a look.

[aasoror]

Since you experienced problems with CCCP several years back, I'd encourage you to check it out since the updated version is from 9/9/2009 so it's worth a look.

Nothing against CCCP, but I have been using K-lite since late nineties (if memory serve me right), have never failed me once, not sure about the reported compatibility but there is so many options and versions to download I am sure that the reason was an unchecked box (or a checked one).

This is one of the most updates pieces of software I have ever used, the latest update is March 14th 2010 ;) That said, I never check for updates as long as my files are running fine.

If remember correctly the prior CCCP version to the 09/09 update was release in 09/08

[JPMG]

I think aasoror must have read my thoughts before I posted ... I was going to say the same thing.

Since I converted from CCCP I have not had a problem. I think the encoding of the failed files was the problem, not the application set.

K-Lite has always worked well, I think the latest version is 5.83, dated 20100314 ... but there may be a point fix after that. The current updates are what has made it work well, it keeps up the the changing battle of the formats.

As you said ... probably a box ticked wrong. I'll run one of the MKV tools against the files and fix them.

[IanC]

I haven't updated my PBO at all since purchase since it doesn't look like they've even got updating successfully implemented, yet . . .
Using this same logic:
You have never run Windows Update, because it has been known to make machines not boot
You've never updated your anti-virus definitions, because you might get false positives
You've never driven a car, because people can have accidents and get killed
You've never walked outside your home, because you might be the one killed by a bad driver in number 3
You've never taken a bath or shower, because slips and falls in the bathroom are a very common accident in the home
You've never cooked anything because of the potential for burns or grease firesThe list could go on forever, right back to daddy's tadpole like thingies not fertilizing an egg for fear of birth defects. Perhaps our ancient ancestors shouldn't have crawled out of the swamps, because it might have been the wrong choice.

Take the leap and least upgrade to P02.

I found it interesting that this thread started 15 days after the last firmware release. Now if it had been more than six months with no update - the tread title might be valid, but not at 15 days.

I've worked software support. I've been the guy you phone and yell at. I've personally been on the the support end of PBKAC errors (problem between keyboard and chair) [eg "Now press the F6 key sir. No sir I don't mean press the letter F and then the number 6. See the keys along the top of your keyboard sir. They're labeled F1 through F12. Press the one labeled F6. No sir, not the letter F and then the number 6." or "Yes mam. We purposely put sand paper in all our floppy disks, specifically to destroy your disk drive." (Yes it was a while ago, and yes I actually did say that in the middle of a bad day to a particularly shrill and obnoxious support call, and yes I did accidentally hang up on her, and yes she did complain to my supervisor, and yes I did get in trouble - but not much because the accusation that our floppy broke her disk drive was ridiculous)

So with that background, I have a natural sympathy for CJ, Ben and the rest of the team. And of course I roll my eyes at the general lack of patience, civility, and conspiratorial overtones of other posters.

In my current job, I see what happens to construction schedules, and target dates when three $80,000 pieces of equipment fall off a truck. They had to be shipped to a testing facility, then returned to the job site. There was no damaged, but is did take three months for the shipping, testing and re-shipping. I've seen a multi-million dollar piece of scientific equipment gets punctured by a fork lift and destroyed. Then eight months later its replacement suffers the same fate.

Target dates are just that - Targets. Stuff happens and things get delayed. That's not broken promises, it's just reality. And no, the final product is never perfect.

I just know, right about now, someone is going to point to the update the boot code issue. CJ probably initially thought it would be easy. Turned out to require the serial header, and cables, and software, and was not very intuitive or user friendly. Oh yea, and if not done correctly, it really could brick your unit. So they decided to step away from that one.

Personally, I knew I was buying a version 1.0, geek's toy, from a small company. I knew it wasn't a polished consumer level device. I knew there would be bumps in the road.

I've seen some attempts to address issues, and implement a few of the "wish list" items in firmware. (eg BT and Samba on USB, and more responsive user interface, release of the open source part of the code) Maybe not done quite right, but steps in the right direction.

And do remember that the unit is only 5 months old. How many months did Toyota take to fix the gas peddles? Certainly that was a more serious issue on a +$20K unit, than minor problems on a $100 ish media player.

I still see the unit as having a lot of potential. I see that it has not been locked down, and still lets us tinker. I see a solid metal device, rather than a cheep hunk of plastic. I see something that plays the media files I've thrown at it. I've spent more on other AV items that did a lot less.

I see the PBO's price point as on the cusp of "disposable," if things don't work out. How many of you have upgraded to a new cell phone or iPod for more money, with less grumbling than you're making now? The PBO needs to be viewed from that same perspective.

[aasoror]

I found it interesting that this thread started 15 days after the last firmware release. Now if it had been more than six months with no update - the tread title might be valid, but not at 15 days.

- What firmware release are you talking about ..? have you considering the fact that P04 was dropped out for many customers due to the fact that it answers no questions that was posed after P02 ?
- Give me a break, you toss a piece of code that can easily brick the box and you don't even bother telling people what exactly does this piece of code do to you ?! everyone who is still on P02 (with/without trying P04) is practically waiting for the update since Nov 2009, how does 5 months sound to you ?!
- Come on, there are proper ways for software development and there is the way P04 was released. When someone is doing something wrong, being patient and making up excuses will not resolve anything, you just need to point them to the right direction. I still stand behind my statement earlier in this thread .. "its just shameful for Patriot to put its name on a piece of software like P04".



So with that background, I have a natural sympathy for CJ, Ben and the rest of the team. And of course I roll my eyes at the general lack of patience, civility, and conspiratorial overtones of other posters.

Give me one good reason for that ..? CJ, Ben and rest of the team were never a part of any software support issue for the PBO. First its not their job to do so, AFAWK CJ is Patriot rep, Ben is the forum admin (so far they have been doing their jobs excellently), but who is actually dealing with the support for the PBO (be it PBKAC issues or not) ..? its the PBO owners, and once more I challenge any one on this forum to bring up a single software related support issue that was resolved by a Patriot personnel.



I just know, right about now, someone is going to point to the update the boot code issue. CJ probably initially thought it would be easy. Turned out to require the serial header, and cables, and software, and was not very intuitive or user friendly. Oh yea, and if not done correctly, it really could brick your unit. So they decided to step away from that one.

+1, couldn't agree more, but why are you speaking for CJ, why haven't CJ made a single post like this in reply to the dozens of times this issue has been posted. What is threatening about being open to the community ? (and I refer to PM not CJ) You don't get our point, not being able to fulfill your promises due to RMA concerns is one thing, and totally ignoring any post legitimately asking about updates on the a proposal that Patriot has made is another thing.

While we are there, do you have an idea whats so dangerous about the HDMI diagnostic procedure promised more than a month ago ?! how about the P04 firmware change log promised exactly 3 weeks ago..? I am not sure people require a serial header and cables to read through that changlog list .. :rolleyes:



Personally, I knew I was buying a version 1.0, geek's toy, from a small company. I knew it wasn't a polished consumer level device. I knew there would be bumps in the road.

I am not sure everyone share your insight, let me check on amazon .. PBO is listed under Electronics, newegg (external hard drives), ncix (media players) .. so where exactly did you find the PBO under the "geek only toys" section ?! lots of the average Joes take things as they presented to them ... if the PBO is not "a polished consumer level device" it shouldn't have been offered to consumers at places alongside "polished devices". Why should end users be held responsible for Patriot targeting the wrong market ?!

And where did "Patriot is a small company" statement come from ?! I am not sure how much are familiar with Patriot as a supplier for memory hardware, but Patriot can be anything but a small company. "Patriot Memory's parent company, PDP Systems, Inc., was founded in 1985 and is headquartered in Fremont, California, USA., Patriot Memory was established in 2005". And if PM is a small company .. what would you call "Mascool" or "Hornettek" (companies marketing the PBO clones) ..?



I've seen some attempts to address issues, and implement a few of the "wish list" items in firmware. (eg BT and Samba on USB, and more responsive user interface, release of the open source part of the code) Maybe not done quite right, but steps in the right direction.

once more that not the right way to software development. when developing a firmware update, the first thing to do is to go through "the buglist" chose the most reported bugs, do as much as humanly possible of these bugs, then turn to the wishlist, find the ones that can be done with minimal effort and save the big ones for a major release. This isn't how it should be done.. this is how it MUST be done, any other way and you will end up building bugs with each release (not rocket science its 101 software development).

That said, do you really think that enabling Samba on USB was easier (coding effort) or more demanded (notice that it was already resolved on the forum) than a mp3 list shuffle or subtitle toggle ?! once more the lack of communication between the community and Patriot leaves us with only one conclusion .. "there is no wishlist or buglist ... you will get the updates whenever its ready with whatever it contains".



I still see the unit as having a lot of potential. I see that it has not been locked down, and still lets us tinker.

Thats not even 100% true, I am sure you already know that all the scripting and tricks that used to work on P02 doesn't work on P04, unless some wizardry is done (involving remounting the PBO filesystem + further research on other modding sites)



I see the PBO's price point as on the cusp of "disposable,"
While mostly correct, the dollar store reasoning is not applicable here, simply due to the savings involved in not spending money on appropriate R&D, so if the competitors can offer similar price tag which also includes paying for R&D (and they do by the way) then it shouldn't be hard to know who is getting maximum profit and who is left with the short end of the stick.

Once more no offense and nothing personal against anyone mentioned above so non should be taken.

Peace out

[kuri]

Yeah I can't help but agree with aasoror.

I don't know why people keep bringing up the fact that Patriot is a smaller company versus giants like Asus or even Western Digital, and use that as an excuse for Patriot's poor support services, or seemingly lack of development resources for the PBO.

The fact is Patriot chose to enter the media player market with the PBO. Nobody forced them to. So they should have the foresight to allocate development and support resources for the PBO. This is true whether the company is large or small. If they didn't see that the PBO requires development & support resources, that's just bad planning and nobody but Patriot is to blame.

Besides, while Patriot is certainly a smaller company in scale compared to Asus or WD, it is certainly not an excuse to provide poor service. In fact, in my past experience, smaller firms have always provided better customer service than large companies.

The thing is there are good and bad support services. It's true that targets are just targets, and every company more often than not miss targets.

The difference is that a good support service will:
- inform customers of any delays if a previously published release date/timeframe is pushed back,
- inform customers what exactly is fixed/changed in a new patch/release,
- inform customers of new bugs if it's found that the new version breaks certain features,
- etc.

What Patriot failed and is continuing to fail to do is inform its customers.

Okay, some companies do not ever release change logs or any details on released patches, so I'll give you that one. But in this case, it was Patriot themselves who told us the P04 firmware update details will be available on March 8th (http://www.patriotmem.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15550&postcount=13). What happened? Nothing.

I think we would be happier if Patriot even says things like:
- "We are working with Realtek on the fix for the Toshiba TV HDMI compatibility issue. The fix is targeted for P05 in Q2."
- "At this time we are not considering enhancements such as Internet TV and Internet Radio."
- "Unfortunately the P04 release has been delayed. It has been re-targeted for May 2010. We apologize for any inconvenience."

It doesn't have to be all good news. Sure people hate delays and bad news, but people hate being left in the dark even more.

I'm not saying all other companies' support services are great. But if a support department does not satisfy its customers, it is undoubtedly going to be criticized.

[outatouch0]

You raise some valid points that have been raised and are well understood by many of us.
If we did not like the PBO we would not be here so there is no need to defend it as a player.


I just know, right about now, someone is going to point to the update the boot code issue. CJ probably initially thought it would be easy. Turned out to require the serial header, and cables, and software, and was not very intuitive or user friendly. Oh yea, and if not done correctly, it really could brick your unit. So they decided to step away from that one.

OH REALLY, nice of them to tell you that but not the PBO community as a whole here on their own forum... :p
This one gets brought up a lot simply because it is easy. One of the earliest examples of post promise silence. The "big deal" about it is this is totally unnecessary. We totally get it, most of us anyway, stuff happens, things don't work out... we have all been outside the house before ;)
A simple statement much like you postulated on their behalf would actually gain my respect! I do not know what to make of utter refusal to respond to posts and private messages requesting followup.

[layzieyez]

Using this same logic:[LIST=1]
You've never driven a car, because people can have accidents and get killed


A lot of people are upset with Toyota since their acceleration is still in beta which necessitated a recall. So how do you like your comparison now?

Anyhow, thanks to all respondents. I'm still waiting Patriot. Please get it right. I believe in you despite what you (or others may lead you to) think.

[PeterT]

I wonder if there is any point heading up the food chain at Patriot, and trying to alert Management as to what is (or is not) going on here.

So far, I have been unable to find eMails for people, but the owner Paul Jones does have an entry on LinkedIn, along with numerous others, including Mai Kosla VP of Sales, and and Eric Ackerson Director of Marketing.

[Patriot_CJ]

Thanks every one for the post. We have been working with our vendor for the next firmware update, so apologize for any late response. All in all, we are doing the best we can to help expedite the process. This is the first media player box we released, and we do take acount for all the feedback accumlated to date for our feature product development.

Regardless, we are still doing what we can to improve exiting firmware. As forum size continue to grow, we appreicate any help from fellow members. If needed, feel free to PM us for any immediate response.

[aasoror]

Thanks every one for the post. We have been working with our vendor for the next firmware update, so apologize for any late response. All in all, we are doing the best we can to help expedite the process. This is the first media player box we released, and we do take acount for all the feedback accumlated to date for our feature product development.

Regardless, we are still doing what we can to improve exiting firmware. As forum size continue to grow, we appreicate any help from fellow members. If needed, feel free to PM us for any immediate response.

Good post CJ, very diplomatic, at least we know there is someone at the other end of the line, no promises made, .. everyone is happy ;)

Hopefully I speak for everyone saying that there is no point in rushing yourselves, you are already past the promised deadline and we don't have a specific feature list to be anticipating. Lets all agree that its better to get it right than rush it out ;), so take your time and do it properly (not you ofcourse), lets also agree that a firmware without an extensive list of features and bugfix list is no longer accepted or welcomed.

So take your time and impress us, I am sure everyone has other things to keep himself busy with rather than waiting for the firmware release.

[outatouch0]

Good post CJ, very diplomatic, at least we know there is someone at the other end of the line, no promises made, .. everyone is happy ;)

Hopefully I speak for everyone saying that there is no point in rushing yourselves, you are already past the promised deadline and we don't have a specific feature list to be anticipating. Lets all agree that its better to get it right than rush it out ;), so take your time and do it properly (not you ofcourse), lets also agree that a firmware without an extensive list of features and bugfix list is no longer accepted or welcomed.

So take your time and impress us, I am sure everyone has other things to keep himself busy with rather than waiting for the firmware release.

+1
Agreed on all of the above. Nice to hear from you CJ.

[Friend_g]

CJ's statement seems a farewell speech to me. That pretty matches the title - "Patriot has given up on the box office", although not completely. When CJ says "future product development", I interpret the meaning of "future product" is not media player.

I think Patriot definitely can learn from this. Their overlook on firmware/software is the cause. It is pathetic to see what they get today even after they are "doing the best". Given Patriot's control on their "vendor", I don't think the request on bugfix list can be honored.

So be it. Check back sometime to see any luck to get a useable new firmware. Or, move on to another product. Sign out.

[billcat]

Uh, I don't quite see that interpretation, Friend g, but ok ..

Bought another PBO from Newegg via this post (http://www.patriotmem.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3387) by gmd024 (thanks again, m8) because I'm either a masochist or an idiot who likes what this toy can do so far :D

[watcher]

Uh, I don't quite see that interpretation, Friend g, but ok ..

Bought another PBO from Newegg via this post (http://www.patriotmem.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3387) by gmd024 (thanks again, m8) because I'm either a masochist or an idiot who likes what this toy can do so far :D

I didn't read that into it either..... I read that they are working on and expect to release more firmware updates............ Maybe they will....MAYBE they won't.

But no matter to me because.....................

I'm liking mine too! PO4 firmware and it plays 98% of anything I throw at it. ( what it did not play... like old .WMV or some .FLV was not an issue as I converted these "few" to MP4 or MPG.)

To keep all my different media on a couple big hard drives (very little space) and have it all ready to view and play on my computers,TV or Stereo with a click is exactly what I wanted. No conversions ( 98% of the time), burning......massive storage space needed.....storage containers,..etc...etc.......... And puts out a great picture.......actually improves some vids so they look better after they run through the PBO.

Which is what I bought it for. ;)

Anything else it does or will do "in the future"..... is icing on the cake to me.

So I reckon it's all from what perspective you view this media player from.... as to how you'll feel about it.

I also really like the off switch that completely kills all power ( none of that still on when off crap) ........ the aluminum case & small size. And the inputs.

Yep..........not "perfect" but it does what I want it to do. ( low expectations :p).

[adamsky]

CJ's statement seems a farewell speech to me. That pretty matches the title - "Patriot has given up on the box office", although not completely. When CJ says "future product development", I interpret the meaning of "future product" is not media player.

Read carefully. It says "feature product", which completely changes the meaning ;)

[aasoror]

Read carefully. It says "feature product", which completely changes the meaning ;)

Its a typo ;)

[adamsky]

Its a typo ;)

Well, whatever it is, I don't really share Friend_g's feeling on CJ's reply :D

[gmd024]

With all the ridicule CJ/PM gets from this forum - he still chimes in from time to time with some info and still gets stabbed almost immediately

My previous offer to CJ still holds -- if he will privately supply me with his mailing address - I'll gladly send him a First Aid kit to tend to the wounds recieved from the forum :p ;)

:D

[aasoror]

Well, whatever it is, I don't really share Friend_g's feeling on CJ's reply :D

Well, whatever it is, denial is the second phase of the grief cycle (http://changingminds.org/disciplines/change_management/kubler_ross/kubler_ross.htm), hang on buddy, only 4 more to go. :D

[gmd024]

"Well, whatever it is, denial is the second phase of the grief cycle, hang on buddy, only 4 more to go"

Phew! -- borders on the previously mentioned need for a first aid kit ;)

:D

[scboley]

I think that the device is awesome and too many people are asking for unreal things and want them yesterday.....now one thing CJ or Ben could do is give some kind of information even non commital and it would greatly improve the aura of the forum which has turned way south for company image. Give some generic release targets with what they're targeting to fix and I think if they'd release some beta builds for these caustic souls that feel so inclined to complain about every little thing. Release betas in all kinds of formats to get them debugged by the masses and the best would be to release it all in formats that the community could provide code fixes which would give patriot some free developers on the fly. The linux community that this firmware was built from sure has gotten that part right the last 10 yrs for sure.

[outatouch0]

I think that the device is awesome and too many people are asking for unreal things and want them yesterday.....now one thing CJ or Ben could do is give some kind of information even non commital and it would greatly improve the aura of the forum which has turned way south for company image. Give some generic release targets with what they're targeting to fix and I think if they'd release some beta builds for these caustic souls that feel so inclined to complain about every little thing. Release betas in all kinds of formats to get them debugged by the masses and the best would be to release it all in formats that the community could provide code fixes which would give patriot some free developers on the fly. The linux community that this firmware was built from sure has gotten that part right the last 10 yrs for sure.

I am touched by your naive optimism... clearly you have not read enough posts on this forum of beta testers :D

[billcat]

Well, whatever it is, denial is the second phase of the grief cycle (http://changingminds.org/disciplines/change_management/kubler_ross/kubler_ross.htm), hang on buddy, only 4 more to go. :D

Hey, I thought we were stuck at the "testing" phase ..

[watcher]

Hey, I thought we were stuck at the "testing" phase ..

I been testing Windows since the early 90's (3.1).......been testing Linux since 1999.......... been testing cars I drive since I was 16. Been testing about everything I own or use.

What's new?

:p:p:p

Welcome to planet earth. TESTING..........TESTING....... 1.....2...3.....


BTW---. The PBO is testing out with more pluses than minuses in my tests. ;)

[gmd024]

The PBO is testing out with more pluses than minuses in my tests. ;)

Here - Here!! - Gotta' agree w/that

[billcat]

I been testing Windows since the early 90's (3.1).......been testing Linux since 1999.......... been testing cars I drive since I was 16. Been testing about everything I own or use.

What's new?

:p:p:p

Welcome to planet earth. TESTING..........TESTING....... 1.....2...3.....


BTW---. The PBO is testing out with more pluses than minuses in my tests. ;)

Yeah, I remember using Procomm to hook up to the university through a 1200 baud modem and unix commands, and thinking this was very fast stuff. Built my first 286 computer with a full meg of ram and 20 meg hd in 80-something. You could soar through all the flavors of DOS with that rig :) Was one of those guys who hated windoz ... took me years to accept it. Who would have thought in a few years we could watch HDTV from a networked box half a house away? LOL At the time I was wondering when a pc might have the ability to hold an entire encyclopedia with illustrations in its memory. Texts were very massive space hogs. Mp3 (the 90's hog) didn't exist yet .. Now it's videos, and three 1.5 terabyte drives barely cut it ;)

[aasoror]

I think that the device is awesome and too many people are asking for unreal things and want them yesterday.....now one thing CJ or Ben could do is give some kind of information even non commital and it would greatly improve the aura of the forum which has turned way south for company image. Give some generic release targets with what they're targeting to fix and I think if they'd release some beta builds for these caustic souls that feel so inclined to complain about every little thing. Release betas in all kinds of formats to get them debugged by the masses and the best would be to release it all in formats that the community could provide code fixes which would give patriot some free developers on the fly. The linux community that this firmware was built from sure has gotten that part right the last 10 yrs for sure.

And you have been here since Feb ?
Man those - very reasonable- demand of yours have just placed you among the "people asking for unreal things" category as well :)

In case you haven't already noticed, PM has outsourced this to whom they have *finally* admittedly refer to as their "vendor".

This vendor offers them nothing from the very simple and logical demands you have outlined, the vendor just offers them some mystical piece of code (firmware) that is released whenever its released and on an "AS-IS" condition. Its mystical in the sense that you can only install it to know what it exactly do as no information regarding such simple issue is ever released.

I really advise you to reread carefully the posts made in this thread and other ranting threads before making any statements that might be remotely interpreted as an unintended gesture implying anything along the lines of "how an impatient and ungrateful community the PBO community is" ;)

Peace,

[scboley]

And you have been here since Feb ?
Man those - very reasonable- demand of yours have just placed you among the "people asking for unreal things" category as well :)

In case you haven't already noticed, PM has outsourced this to whom they have *finally* admittedly refer to as their "vendor".

This vendor offers them nothing from the very simple and logical demands you have outlined, the vendor just offers them some mystical piece of code (firmware) that is released whenever its released and on an "AS-IS" condition. Its mystical in the sense that you can only install it to know what it exactly do as no information regarding such simple issue is ever released.

I really advise you to reread carefully the posts made in this thread and other ranting threads before making any statements that might be remotely interpreted as an unintended gesture implying anything along the lines of "how an impatient and ungrateful community the PBO community is" ;)

Peace,

Actually not naive at all and was doing a little subversive suggestions to Patriot at how they might start turning this around and making it look, taste, and feel a lot better than a couple guys apparently hiding from the forum. Now the thing is that I bought the PBO and for all intents and purposes it does as advertised on the box and site what it is intended to do so really the company has no obligation to make it work to the capabilities of the realtek chip that is within it. The typical thing to do is do a respin with some newer hardware in it and release that under the new sdk and let this thing sit in the dust bins for here to eternity. Now see I'm talking reality and not some piped up dream that a lot of the chatter on the forum has turned to. I spent 10 yrs at a corp support level and know what the drill is for these guys managing this forum.

[black_valkyrie]

the very fact that patriot allows this topic to remain live in their forums demonstrates that they have indeed given up on this product.

[aasoror]

Actually not naive at all and was doing a little subversive suggestions to Patriot at how they might start turning this around and making it look, taste, and feel a lot better than a couple guys apparently hiding from the forum.


Just in case the sarcasm in my original post wasn't clear enough, I didn't say you are naive at all, I am just saying that those simple and logical requests of yours is merely part of the list that the community here has been asking for (for the last several months), we aren't the ones saying they are infeasible, yet the truth is to PM they are (suggestion to reread my post for explanation).


Now the thing is that I bought the PBO and for all intents and purposes it does as advertised on the box and site what it is intended to do so really the company has no obligation to make it work to the capabilities of the realtek chip that is within it.


One can speak only for oneself whether the PBO is working as advertised for him or not. Lots of members here are missing the "ADVERTISED" features like:

HD-DVD playback (advertised on the firmware download page)
1TB HDD support (advertised on the PBO official FAQ list)
several subtitle language support (advertised by PM representative over AVS forum and the likes)
random mp3 playing (PM removed this advertised feature instead of actually working to make the PBO run as advertised)
BR-ISO menu navigation (once more the easy and simple fix was removing the ADVERTISED feature)
10/100 LAN speeds (still advertised on the box)
7.1 HD-Audio bypass (still advertised on the box).

So perhaps Patriot isn't obliged to make those features work for you, but for other who actually bought the box based on those "Patriot advertised feature list" PM are 100% obliged (I personally have no use for any of the above features, but again that me).



The typical thing to do is do a respin with some newer hardware in it and release that under the new sdk and let this thing sit in the dust bins for here to eternity.

Lets get real, if they follow the same support approach who in this world will even bother buying a new media player from them ..?! a $150 box (merely 4 months ago) has now a market value of around $85 (so a 4 months used box would be $60 at most) why would anyone want to through his money down the drain ..?!

once more I have to bring up Xtreamer, Xtreamer folks are releasing Xtreamer V2 (Xtreamer Pro) based on the newer realtek chipset (that fixes the HD-Audio pass through issue). Not only are they still as aggressive as ever releasing firmware for the original Xtreamer, but they are also offering the current owners a discounted upgrade price on the Xtreamer Pro. Now to the PBO, if PM is offering the "PBO Ultra" to the PBO owners for $150 instead of $200 retail price .. how many *current* members would actually jump on this deal ..?!




Now see I'm talking reality and not some piped up dream that a lot of the chatter on the forum has turned to.

This is just unfair to this forum, and I think you need to spend more time here before making such statement. I can easily challenge you to quote a single piped up dream that was not almost instantaneously corrected by a senior member. In fact just bring me a piped up dream that was posted during the last 3 months, man .. even the wishlist thread no one is actually posting there any more. Most posters here are just looking to get their boxes work first before jumping on the pipe.


I spent 10 yrs at a corp support level and know what the drill is for these guys managing this forum.
What does managing this forum got to do with any support for the PBO ..? in case you didn't notice, if you don't have an RMA issue there is no PM support around here. Just as admitted by CJ.

As forum size continue to grow, we appreicate any help from fellow members. If needed, feel free to PM us for any immediate response.
Peace ;)

[outatouch0]

For the record...
I said naive which wasn't a jab at all to scboley.
It was yet another shot across the Patriot bow which anyone that has been here awhile (has read posts of mine) would easily pick up on.
Yet admittedly, scboley being new might not now get it. Though I am sure he will once having a chance to read more threads.

And @ scboley, I sure hope you do stick around as you have also contributed some thoughtful and helpful posts on other threads. The naive optimism I refer to is simply this: Yours was yet another post from a new member possessing quite reasonable expectations and assumptions not having been around long enough to experience the deafening silence following many many promises made by PM compounded by misunderstanding of the posters intentions while not yet being aware of the contributions to the advancement of the PBO made by said members.

What my sarcasm is alluding to and what aasoror is addressing directly is what scboley and any other reasonable person might think as to how a decent company might handle things.... (well, no point in yet another reiteration). Suffice to say that PM has not simply dropped the ball. They have dropped a heavy iron ball on their foot without shoes while standing on a bed of nails.

[DeanN]

...Lets get real, if they follow the same support approach who in this world will even bother buying a new media player from them ..?! a $150 box (merely 4 months ago) has now a market value of around $85 (so a 4 months used box would be $60 at most) why would anyone want to through his money down the drain ..?!
......
...if PM is offering the "PBO Ultra" to the PBO owners for $150 instead of $200 retail price .. how many *current* members would actually jump on this deal ..?!




Well said, aasoror! If it is real the case, too bad for their reputation. I'll boycott the company!

[black_valkyrie]

the very fact that patriot allows this topic to remain live in their forums demonstrates that they have indeed given up on this product.



i stand by this.

[Abaddon]

Have we had any official explanation whatsoever as to why the second March firmware update never materialized?

[aasoror]

Have we had any official explanation whatsoever as to why the second March firmware update never materialized?

Here you are ...


Thanks every one for the post. We have been working with our vendor for the next firmware update, so apologize for any late response. All in all, we are doing the best we can to help expedite the process. This is the first media player box we released, and we do take acount for all the feedback accumlated to date for our feature product development.

[The Globule]

This is for giggles and concerns a product not related to the PBO:

I was looking for the firmware update or a hack for my Hammer NAS drive that has been promised as coming in a few weeks since 2007... :eek:

Among other things, that update was supposed to make the NAS uPNP and iTunes server compliant.

As of now, they deliver new Hammer NAS with an updated firmware which has not been released on their web site and for which they offer no official support.

The kicker is there was a lawsuit brought against them a while back for not publishing the source code of their original firmware (GNU license infringement). :rolleyes:

At one point, I really believe that a civil action should be engaged against manufacturers making false claims about the features or performance of their products.

Looking at the numbers of hits on some posts in this forum, Patriot would be looking at tens of thousands of users in such a suit. :cool:

[Korbis]

This is for giggles and concerns a product not related to the PBO:

I was looking for the firmware update or a hack for my Hammer NAS drive that has been promised as coming in a few weeks since 2007... :eek:

Among other things, that update was supposed to make the NAS uPNP and iTunes server compliant.

As of now, they deliver new Hammer NAS with an updated firmware which has not been released on their web site and for which they offer no official support.

The kicker is there was a lawsuit brought against them a while back for not publishing the source code of their original firmware (GNU license infringement). :rolleyes:

At one point, I really believe that a civil action should be engaged against manufacturers making false claims about the features or performance of their products.

Looking at the numbers of hits on some posts in this forum, Patriot would be looking at tens of thousands of users in such a suit. :cool:If people are going to buy products based on promised yet-to-deliver features then it is a good idea to buy from a large company. In the case of net media players Asus and WDTV are better bets. Smaller companies like AC Ryan or Xtreamer that are solely focused on selling media players can always close up shop if it becomes unprofitable to stay in business.

There are exceptions though and I've come to appreciate products that have a larger 3rd party support like from independent programmers & hackers. Take for example the famous Linksys WRT54G series of wireless routers. If it wasn't for the alternate firmware support I would have probably have never considered that product. Man, am I sure glad I did.

I took the chance on the PBO due to fact that it supported an internal HDD and had a built-in bittorrent client. Also visited some forums and saw that users were already trying out different firmware so that provided me a plan B if ever Patriot decided to close up shop.

I'm already disappointed at the new P04 firmware release and their sudden silence on any public response to future fixes.
Now I'm running on AC Ryan firmware and I'm enjoying it. Going to try the Xtreamer next and hope more hackers can help unlock other firmware. ;)

[tskitishvili]

...
Now I'm running on AC Ryan firmware and I'm enjoying it. Going to try the Xtreamer next and hope more hackers can help unlock other firmware. ;)

I'm waiting for the universal remote to arrive. That's the only reason why my PBO is not on eBay yet. :) What features are you enjoying the most ? Did you try YAMJ ?

[Korbis]

I'm waiting for the universal remote to arrive. That's the only reason why my PBO is not on eBay yet. :) What features are you enjoying the most ? Did you try YAMJ ?Mainly the internet radio. Haven't tried out the other goodies and I'm still waiting to see if I want to have my computer running as a media server since I don't have an internal HDD to install into the PBO.

[Monkey]

Wow. It has been a while I check for updates here... Since the release of P04 I stayed away from it after reading some pretty ugly issues...

Still not new eh, and I can see people are getting more frustrated. Same where too, and I really hate to see a box with potential going down the drain.

I am glad PBO worked for me most of the time (oh I am still hoping I will receive my rebate cheque come to think of it.) With some minor annoyance.

I hope some guru and combine the P02 firmware with the Source Code release and start making custom firmware. I wish I can help, but I don't have much time these days and my kung fu is getting rusty....

[aasoror]

I hope some guru and combine the P02 firmware with the Source Code release and start making custom firmware. I wish I can help, but I don't have much time these days and my kung fu is getting rusty....

This isn't going to happen as there is no source code released, what was released is merely the busybox related code (the GPL licensed code), the dvdplayer application source code wasn't released (and probably wont).

[outatouch0]

Now I'm running on AC Ryan firmware and I'm enjoying it. Going to try the Xtreamer next and hope more hackers can help unlock other firmware. ;)

How are the network WAN & LAN speeds? Are they still bottle-necked with ACRyan firmware?
How about HD and/or BR .iso menu support?

[quickcurrent]

Let see, you have a box you can turn on and plays almost anything out there.

Don't spread BS like that around, bud. I bought mine on the strength of statements like that. The reality is, every second video I get, I have to convert for the PBO to play. Universality of play is definitely not the PBO's strength, LOL.

quickcurrent

[outatouch0]

He did say ALMOST anything and from what I can tell, and the product reviews seem to support this, the PBO plays more filetypes than other comparable players.
What type of media is giving you trouble, maybe we can help?

[watcher]

Don't spread BS like that around, bud. I bought mine on the strength of statements like that. The reality is, every second video I get, I have to convert for the PBO to play. Universality of play is definitely not the PBO's strength, LOL.

quickcurrent


Sorry......... mine plays "ALMOST" everything I throw at it too.

Of course I suspect it helps to play decent videos that are not damaged. And have all your other "DUH" things in order.
:p

As an example in order to make my point.....I've had people tell me Subaru's were junk too........yet I have one still running strong with over 400,000 miles on it.

Some people seem to have all the luck and others have none. ;)

I will tell ya one thing....... If my PBO disappointed me as much as it seems to disappoint some........ I'd get a refund or at the very least buy something that made me happier and move on.

But I wouldn't get all pissy and mad because some others are mainly satisfied with it. It's not the end of the world or mission critical.......... IT'S A TOY. And fact is "for some" it does what they bought it to do.
:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

[Korbis]

How are the network WAN & LAN speeds? Are they still bottle-necked with ACRyan firmware? I can't tell in the network speed is better since on the original PBO firmware you would see the network speed indicator but on the AC Ryan firmware there is no such thing. However it does feel more a little bit faster but that is purely subjective.



How about HD and/or BR .iso menu support?Don't have any HD or BR .iso's to check out. Heck I would be crazy to download over 20Gb just for one movie. Also don't have any actual Blu-ray player yet so can't help you there.

[Korbis]

I will tell ya one thing....... If my PBO disappointed me as much as it seems to disappoint some........ I'd get a refund or at the very least buy something that made me happier and move on.Please tell me how I(or anyone) can get a refund on a PBO with its UPC already cut out and sent in for the Mail in Rebate. Looks like Patriot found a legal way to handcuff customers into keeping their units without dealing with refunds. No wonder these small time outfits love to deal with Mail in Rebates!

[aasoror]

Please tell me how I(or anyone) can get a refund on a PBO with its UPC already cut out and sent in for the Mail in Rebate. Looks like Patriot found a legal way to handcuff customers into keeping their units without dealing with refunds. No wonder these small time outfits love to deal with Mail in Rebates!

You and everyone else had 30 days from the day of purchase to post mark the rebate. Those 30 days from the day of purchase are also the limit for a retailer refund. Thus, past the 30 days with or without UPC you can't get a refund from your retailer. Submitting the rebate at day 1 or 29 you have literately handcuffed yourself and you have no one else to blame.

That said, if you really believe that PM has falsely advertised the PBO, raise enough hell on PM (or any manufacturer) , threaten with (or initiate) a law suit and open BBB case based on claims of "False Advertisement" and you can get a full refund, with or without a UPC. The problem is (as with all similar cases) the compensation is usually not worthy it (compared to the expenses).

[Korbis]

You and everyone else had 30 days from the day of purchase to post mark the rebate. Those 30 days from the day of purchase are also the limit for a retailer refund. Thus, past the 30 days with or without UPC you can't get a refund from your retailer. Submitting the rebate at day 1 or 29 you have literately handcuffed yourself and you have no one else to blame.What about those people that bought the product believing future firmware would deliver those promised features? What about those the had incompatibility problems with their TV and waited for fixes? What about those who discovered some of the features were broken in firmware and decided to wait for new firmware?

[outatouch0]

What about those people that bought the product believing future firmware would deliver those promised features? What about those the had incompatibility problems with their TV and waited for fixes? What about those who discovered some of the features were broken in firmware and decided to wait for new firmware?

See the second paragraph...

[Korbis]

See the second paragraph...I saw that but why should we go through the hassle for so little in return?

If the company had any integrity they would have worked with retailers to offer direct discounts without the use of Mail in Rebates. It is happening right now as there are negative responses and bad publicity associated with these rebates. Some of the larger corporations are refraining from MIR's and a couple of retailers are instituting no MIR policies.

[scboley]

Here's an idea for those having the hdmi compatibility problems try a cheap hdmi switch off of amazon and see if that translates the signal to something that the tv can deal and pickup. I got one because I have 2 ports on tv and 3 devices plus it's cool cause it switches automatically when a device is powered on. options of a pass thru surround sound hdmi system are there as well and for the ones that are complaining about file incompatibilities hmmmm are these bittorrent files you're getting that you have no idea what settings were used to transcode the files? EVERY single file that I have transcoded myself works on the PBO. There are thousands of devices now that are just handheld video streaming recorders that people are using to dump stuff to youtube and such and there's no way anything will play all of them. HD-DVD is a dead standard so why is that even an issue? We had bluray shoved down our throats and is what we'll have to deal with the next 10 yrs or so I'd venture to say and why don't we ask for sony beta compatibility lol.....PATRIOT AT LEAST ANSWER SOMEWHERE ON HERE WHAT YOUR FUTURE INTENTIONS FOR THIS PRODUCT ARE!!!!!

[aasoror]

First I am by no means relieving PM from their after sale support obligation towards the PBO owners, I am just saying that the MIR isn't a valid point to raise here. The implication that MIR is used to trap customers with a crappy product is just not logical. The PBO MIR was a retailer specific, PBO had MIR on NCIX, AMAZON and Tigerdirect at the same time there was no MIR at Newegg, CC and lots of other retailers. True the no-MIR price was not as cheap as the after rebate price, yet it was certainly cheaper than the before rebate price. Again its your own call to take the risk of MIR towards more savings ($10-$15).



If the company had any integrity they would have worked with retailers to offer direct discounts without the use of Mail in Rebates.

I am sorry, but there is no truth to generalization in this statement, MIR is just another profiting technique, you practically lend the company the MIR value for a month or two and in return they offer you a lower over all price. The main profit typically comes from those who never bother to file the rebate or improbably file them (which is surprisingly many).

what does integrity has to do with anything ? Just last winter I have got MIRs from Brothers, D-Link, Trendnet, Asus, OCZ and Patriot. All bought from reputable retailers .. Amazon, NCIX, Newegg and Tigerdirect. I am not sure if the integrity of all those names should be questioned because they were offering MIR for their customers ?!?



It is happening right now as there are negative responses and bad publicity associated with these rebates.
True, In 2008 we were told that no Canadian retailer will be offering MIR (shortly after the biggest north american MIR agent went under), instead manufacturers will be offering instant rebates. Fast forward to today ... nothing of that materialized. MIR is always a risk someone is willing to take as non-MIR options are always available for the very same product.

[aasoror]

HD-DVD is a dead standard so why is that even an issue? We had bluray shoved down our throats and is what we'll have to deal with the next 10 yrs or so I'd venture to say and why don't we ask for sony beta compatibility lol...

I wish I could share you your LOL, but if you would just take sometime to READ before posting, :rolleyes:

NO ONE ASKED FOR HD-DVD SUPPORT, PATRIOT ADVERTISED HD-DVD SUPPORT.

I am not sure where can you buy betamax nowadays, but simple search for "HD-DVD" on amazon (http://www.amazon.com/HD-DVD-movies-discs/b/ref=sr_tc_2_2?ie=UTF8&node=16295741&qid=1271141635&sr=8-2-tc), inetVideo (http://search.inetvideo.com/search?w=hd+dvd&view=grid)or ebay (http://dvd.shop.ebay.com/DVD-HD-DVD-Blu-ray-/617/i.html?Format=HD%252DDVD&_nkw=hd+dvd&_catref=1&_dmpt=US_DVD_HD_DVD_Blu_ray&_fln=1&_ssov=1&_trksid=p3286.c0.m282)is certainly to surprise you about the size of the "current" market of HD-DVD.

That said, suppose someone is building a super cheap (like $2 a pop cheap) 1080p high def catalog library (or decided not to go RED-2-BLUE with his already built library), this someone goes to the OFFICIAL Patriot FAQ page (http://www.patriotmem.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2159) (dated 22 months after the HD-DVD was shot dead) to find:


Q: Does Box Office support Blu-ray ISO / HD DVD ISO?
A: Not at the moment. A new firmware update (available soon) will add support for both Blu-ray ISO and HD DVD ISO files.
Q: When playing a DVD or Blu-ray ISO file, does Box Office support menus?
A: With a new firmware update (available soon) Blu-ray and HD DVD ISO support will be added, including support for menus. The upcoming firmware update (available soon) will add support for both Blu-ray ISO and HD DVD ISO files.

Logically the next page he goes to check is the Patriot firmware list (http://www.patriotmem.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2131) page (also dated 2 years after the HD-DVD death) , to find this ..

ES-51-283G-PCMPBO25-P02
Note: Now support HDMI dual/ multi channel audio out, added language supports, Blu-Ray/ HDDVD ISO and minor fixes.

Excited, he chose the PBO over all the competition, only to get disappointed, the poor guy MADE ZERO assumptions, and took what was OFFICIALLY ADVERTISED to him.

Now to say that .. "HD-DVD is dead .. lets ask for betamax support as well ?" I am not sure which post gets my LOL now.

Peace

[scboley]

I am not sure what is there to LOL about, but if you would just take sometime to READ before posting, :rolleyes:

NO ONE ASKED FOR HD-DVD SUPPORT, PATRIOT ADVERTISED HD-DVD SUPPORT.

I am not sure where can you buy betamax nowadays, but simple search for "HD-DVD" on amazon, inetVideo or ebay is certainly to surprise you about the size of the "current" market of HD-DVD.

That said, suppose someone is building a super cheap (like $2 a pop cheap) 1080p high def catalog library (or decided not to go RED-2-BLUE with his already built library), this someone goes to the OFFICIAL Patriot FAQ page (http://www.patriotmem.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2159) to find:



Logically the next page he goes to check is the Patriot firmware list (http://www.patriotmem.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2131) page, to find this ..


Excited, he chose the PBO over all the competition, only to get disappointed, the poor guy MADE ZERO assumptions, and took what was OFFICIALLY ADVERTISED to him.

Now you are saying .. "HD-DVD is dead .. lets ask for betamax support as well ?" I am not sure which post gets my LOL now.

Peace

Now come on that is a FAQ posted in a forum that is not actually specs posted with the product description and the sales site so the soon and future and all that is speculative as to when that would be. HD-DVD lost the standard wars and no titles have been released on it for a year now so why would anyone even want to mess with something that is already obsolete. The stuff being sold on amazon and such is someone hoping a sucker will buy their remaining inventory so they don't have to pitch it in the dump out back. I myself would not take a post in a forum even from a patriot employee as product specifications and capabilities. I worked for a very large corp in phone support and out of the hundreds that were there plugging support there were only a few of us had a grasp of what was correct about supporting our products and doing it for years and seeing the ratio of light bulbs on versus no electricity in the heads know that would hold true for any large corporate support levels. If you didn't know this or don't believe it I have some HD-DVD stuff to sell you so you can watch next weeks releases :D

Plus now on a serious note if a person has the HD-DVD just take it and transcode it to 1080p mkv files or some other format and watch them that way on the PBO as that's something that can be fixed without firmware and I know they say soon but I guess patriot's soon and your's and mine are way far apart aasoror and hey I do love your wit and charm!

[aasoror]

Now come on that is a FAQ posted in a forum that is not actually specs posted with the product description and the sales site so the soon and future and all that is speculative as to when that would be.

Very true, so one more time I quote you this ..
Patriot firmware list (http://www.patriotmem.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2131) page

ES-51-283G-PCMPBO25-P02
Note: Now support HDMI dual/ multi channel audio out, added language supports, Blu-Ray/ HDDVD ISO and minor fixes.
This isn't the FAQ, this is the firmware update page that the product official website (http://www.patriotmem.com/products/detailp.jsp?prodline=6&catid=69&prodgroupid=159&id=895&type=20) directs you to. the last time I checked my rusty grammar there is no future (be it distant or near) meaning to the word NOW.



I myself would not take a post in a forum even from a patriot employee as product specifications and capabilities.

A sticky and locked single post that has product/company name in its title is typically called an announcement, this is the form of communication Patriot has chosen. A similar logic would say that Patriot shouldn't offer a warranty service for units bricked due to a firmware update, because it was merely a forum post by CJ (one of its employees) thus not binding to Patriot.



Plus now on a serious note if a person has the HD-DVD just take it and transcode it to 1080p mkv files or some other format and watch them that way on the PBO as that's something that can be fixed without firmware and I know they say soon but I guess patriot's soon and your's and mine are way far apart aasoror and hey I do love your wit and charm!

Once more they didn't say soon, they said "NOW" (which was 5 months ago by the way), they should either stick to their word or change it (not something that wasn't done before) unless false advertisement is intended, which is another story.

And thanks for the complement ;)

Off topic :


HD-DVD lost the standard wars and no titles have been released on it for a year now so why would anyone even want to mess with something that is already obsolete. The stuff being sold on amazon and such is someone hoping a sucker will buy their remaining inventory so they don't have to pitch it in the dump out back.

I c, so someone who already has HD-DVD hardware is supposed to pay $100 for The Ultimate Matrix BR instead of picking the very same 1080p VC-1 transfer on HD-DVD for $10~$20 else he would be a sucker ?! :eek:

Last year (1 year after the death of the format) people were picking up HD-DVD hardware + Planet Earth HD-DVD set for 30% of the price of the PE BR set. It might not work for you but others were calling it "the PE viewing system" and they were happy with their savings.

I am not going to dwell further in that subject, I did say catalog titles, I am bi-colored (red/blue) and I know what I am talking about, I would happily take this discussion offline for those interested or on a separate thread.

[quickcurrent]

For those above that posted in response to my post about the compatibility issue between the PBO and file type support, thank you.

I am well aware that the PBO can play several file types, that is the reason that I kept mine. I did buy and return two Blu-Ray players that were UNABLE to play just about anything I inserted in them. I don't know why they bother putting USB ports in them to play digital files -they are simply Blu-Ray disc players, LOL.

When a media player comes out, it's like everything else electronic/software - get it out to make money on them, with little thought given to what it can do and how well it can do it. For me, if it's called a media player, it should play media, not 20% of it, but 100%. And, no I am not talking about damaged files, I am talking about files that play on the PC very well and cannot play on the PBO for lack of codec support - for that, shame on Patriot and even more so on the other sh*t producers that are more interested in making money than putting out decent stuff. Ditto for software producers, most of whom produce nothing but garbage with more faults than you can shake a stick at. But, maybe it's just me that feels that way and I am talking to a bunch of consumers who are quite satisfied with mediocrity! Good for all those that are.

As to help offered, I can convert the files on my own, but thanks anyways.

It just seems to me that if I buy a piece of equipment to play media files, it should do so without requiring me to convert video files so that the unit can play them. A video conversion usually takes a couple of hours of heavy duty computer resources, so, when that happens often, it becomes rather frustrating. Kind of reminds me of Henry Ford's claim that you could buy a Ford in any color so long as it was black. You can play any media file on the PBO so long as it's supported. The support goes a little beyond one, but falls rather short of playing what people believe it can, especially when statements are made by users like "mine plays everything I throw at it" - sure if it fits the PBO mold, LOL.

[outatouch0]

very thoughtful post quick

Most people here, especially the "veterans" are NOT of the mindset to "give PM a pass" on the functionality of the PBO. A lot of us are both "fans" as well as the strongest critics of the PBO.

Keep in mind this forum is a "community" that interacts with each other. Responding to each other and poking holes in our arguments is HOW IT WORKS ;) Meaning we try to keep PM honest as well as ourselves.
Of course we are more successful amongst ourselves at this because we choose to participate. It seems PM does not participate much nor has much leg to stand on when it does. :rolleyes:

The deal is the PBO plays 99% of MY FILES without issue - great for me. Unfortunately it plays only 20% of YOUR files. Either your PBO is defective or your favorite files/filetypes are not supported or playable on the PBO. Most people have success playing most any file. Thus the reason "holes" are being poked in your argument.
It may be accurate to say the PBO only plays 20% of YOUR FILES but certainly not accurate to say it only plays 20% of all files. Are there capabilities listed in the official support page/list from patriot that are yet unsupported? YES! Is this OK? HELL NO!

[ryanjn]

I just got my PBO and was surprised at how ready it was out-of-the-box, but also at how limitless the configuration was. Seems to only appeal to either the 'set it and forget it' users, or the geeky linux users. I am of the latter, and appreciate the endless possibility that linux offers, but am discouraged there hasn't been more already performed. IMO the UI needs a facelift, and should even be skinnable/themeable, more modular configuration should be available for everything on the device, and should be accessible via webui, like Webmin does for linux servers, or dd-wrt offers for their router firmware.

[scboley]

Wow now after going and looking at the forum for brite-view and what a night and day difference. The issue was hardware and some mkv files lagging and the forum agent agreed to take the customer's uploaded mkv file and test it for himself to see what the issues might be........now that fellas is customer service and their boxes do look pretty spiffy. Seems they took the PBO and broke it down to 3 different configurations or tiers adding additional features for each one and have rolled the sdk2 pkg with the slick gui and enhancements as well. I have emailed the multimedia account at realtek requesting the 1073 sdk and will let you know what comes of that and trust me I'm not expecting much from a company that doesn't even post the specs of the said 1073 chip on their site hmmmmmmmm I have semiconductors in the sea to sell lol....

[gmd024]

Here's an idea for those having the hdmi compatibility problems try a cheap hdmi switch

I tried TWO different HDMI Switches in hopes of resolving my Toshiba/HDMI connection issue - to no avail - and realized a new firmware update wasen't going to resolve it anytime soon either

480i/composite compared to HDMI on a large screen LCD just didn't 'get it' so I found another fix -- and it only cost me about $650 - A NEW LG LCD TV :rolleyes:

I now have an extra LCD TV and an extra HDMI switch that aren't getting much use - I guess I should re-assess that $650 cost to a little over $1000 after it's all said and done
Replacing the $85 PBO would have been a lot cheaper - but like many of the PBO owners here - I became 'attached' to the little black box :p ;)

Should'a checked this forum before purchasing the Toshiba - because there was no warning from the retailer or PM - it would take a short novel to list all the disclaimers

[watcher]

Yep, I bought my PBO to eliminate the pain in the a$$ file conversion process and also to save storage space and improve access of my media.

I guess I'm mainly happy because it does do "most" of what "I" want from it.

And I'm also use to things never being perfect and therefore never expect them to be.
;)

:p:D:D:D

But some faster "bug" fixes and some new firmware that added and improved features would definitely be sweet.

I figure a year from now these "new" media players will be better and more numerous. And I'll move on..... like many..... to bigger and better things. ( like we have from DOS to WIN7 and horse & buggy to hydrogen cars...etc)

Right now we are all just BETA TESTERS regardless of brand. Thank corporate greed for that. The days of pride in what you do or make is almost an extinct idea it seems. It's now all about making the most while putting out the least. And YES that really does suck.

On a side note........ My son has the Asus and I see it has a few qualities that are superior to the PBO.... but the PBO has some qualities that are superior to the Asus. ( I won't bore everyone with rehashing the list). For me I prefer the PBO as it suits what I do and want the best at the "right price".

[snappy46]

Right now we are all just BETA TESTERS regardless of brand. Thank corporate greed for that. The days of pride in what you do or make is almost an extinct idea it seems. It's now all about making the most while putting out the least. And YES that really does suck.


Agree with that statement X1000, I went and visit some of the other manufacturer forums in the past few days and we are far from the only one's that have issues with their media players. Yes some put out more firmware to fix stuff and add functionality but if you look at other forums you will see that some of the new functionality is very limited and buggy.

[scboley]

I'm wondering if anyone has been able to try a hdmi pass thru surround sound system to see if that fixes the toshiba problems. Aasoror has anyone posted that in working configs as you seem to have this whole forum memorized ;)? There are only limited HT systems that have the pass thru but I think it's totally the way to go so you just plug one line to TV and everything else goes to the surround so that all native 5.1 or dolby is passed and played in native formats....took me a while to understand that if you have hdmi or even audio optical and yet just rca jacks back to the surround you do NOT have surround 5.1 at all. So now I'm going to replace my HT eventually with something like the Sony HT-SS360 or HT-SS370 systems and have the real deal in a nice package I can plug my PBO and my bluray players directly into the HT and pass full 5.1 and HD to my surround and tv in the most simplistic manner. This whole HDMI thing has taken several years to start settling and become a very viable tool and with exception to the several issues on the PBO compatibilities with Toshiba is a very good standard.

[gmd024]

If I recall correctly - there has been limited success with passing the HDMI connection through an Audio Amp - but I can't recall what brand of devices were involved
I think it may be listed on one or two of the many posts in the "Compatible or maybe the Incompatible" sticky's

[scboley]

If I recall correctly - there has been limited success with passing the HDMI connection through an Audio Amp - but I can't recall what brand of devices were involved
I think it may be listed on one or two of the many posts in the "Compatible or maybe the Incompatible" sticky's

I'm just thankful all my tvs are samsung and have had not a single issue with either of them ever. God bless the koreans!

[gmd024]

Yah - I'm finally happy with my PBO-setup -- I'll only have to give up one vacation this year because of the final cost of an $85 PBO ;) :p :D

Seriously -- it does do 'a lot' for the price -- I've been looking around in a lot of the other so-called 'better' media player forums - and they are not issue free either - not by any means - and I don't see where I will gain much more than what the PBO does for me right now

I almost pulled the trigger on an Xtreamer the other day - but the realization of p*ss**g the cost of another vacation down the "media player/issue drain" shook me back to reality

Maybe PM will open source the firmware sometime in the future -- with the dedicated and knowledgeable members on this forum - it could be "The Best" one available

[outatouch0]

Yah - I'm finally happy with my PBO-setup -- I'll only have to give up one vacation this year because of the final cost of an $85 PBO ;) :p :D

Seriously -- it does do 'a lot' for the price -- I've been looking around in a lot of the other so-called 'better' media player forums - and they are not issue free either - not by any means - and I don't see where I will gain much more than what the PBO does for me right now

I almost pulled the trigger on an Xtreamer the other day - but the realization of p*ss**g the cost of another vacation down the "media player/issue drain" shook me back to reality

Maybe PM will open source the firmware sometime in the future -- with the dedicated and knowledgeable members on this forum - it could be "The Best" one available

I am with you on this. At this point, for me, it seems best to stick with the PBO for awhile. These devices will likely improve in the next few years. There will be newer chipsets and better hardware options more worthy of my money down the road.
It seems unlikely that Realteck will suddenly become more responsive to its vendors and end users so perhaps another manufacturer will fill that void.
Other units are available with Sigma chipsets but all I know about them thus far is they have been around longer are about 3x more expensive. This may have been a better initial choice given as much good money thrown after bad trying to make the PBO work - IDK

[aasoror]

For me, if it's called a media player, it should play media, not 20% of it, but 100%. And, no I am not talking about damaged files, I am talking about files that play on the PC very well and cannot play on the PBO for lack of codec support

Not only is this statement unfair but its not even realistic, a freshly formatted PC (even with a media center edition of the OS) will only play 10% of your media, not only do u need to install the appropriate codec packs, but you also need to keep on updating them *manually* to achieve a so called "100% playback ability", there is a reason "K-lite codec pack" gets an almost monthly update .. :rolleyes:, so unless you have a media player that would allow you to manually install missing codecs you will never achieve 100% no matter what you did. That said, a 80% global playback success is pretty good IMHO, some might be lucky where 100% of their library would fall in that 80% compatible quote, some would be so unlucky that 100% of their library fall in the 20% incompatible quote, if that is the case then the PBO (or any 1077 Realtek chipset based player) is simply not a viable option for them.


I went and visit some of the other manufacturer forums in the past few days and we are far from the only one's that have issues with their media players.
So I am assuming that those forums also has a ZERO manufacturer presence as well ?! :rolleyes:, problems is one thing (at the end of the day these are all running on the same Realtek chipset and the GUI is based on the same RT reference GUI, and the firmware is based on almost the same RT SDK), dealing with problems is another thing.


I'm wondering if anyone has been able to try a hdmi pass thru surround sound system to see if that fixes the toshiba problems. Aasoror has anyone posted that in working configs as you seem to have this whole forum memorized ;)?
The only working fixes were passing the HDMI via an A/V receiver, HDMI switches didn't work (as far as members have posted).


- with the dedicated and knowledgeable members on this forum - it could be "The Best" one available
How should the PBO be rated based on this fact ? unless the contributing members here are actually signed and legally bound to Patriot, there is nothing that would guarantee that this member only support would continue tomorrow or next week. How can someone say that PBO is the best player out there based on support "SOLELY" provided by punch of members out of their own good will. Where should you go of the "tips and tricks" provided by the members here didn't resolve your issue ?!?



Other units are available with Sigma chipsets but all I know about them thus far is they have been around longer are about 3x more expensive.
WDTV line is Sigma based, not that its problem free but just that its priced around the PBO (for the sake of the argument)

[watcher]

For me, if it's called a media player, it should play media, not 20% of it, but 100%. And, no I am not talking about damaged files, I am talking about files that play on the PC very well and cannot play on the PBO for lack of codec support




Not only is this statement unfair but its not even realistic, a freshly formatted PC (even with a media center edition of the OS) will only play 10% of your media, not only do u need to install the appropriate codec packs, but you also need to keep on updating them *manually* to achieve a so called "100% playback ability", there is a reason "K-lite codec pack" gets an almost monthly update .. :rolleyes:, so unless you have a media player that would allow you to manually install missing codecs you will never achieve 100% no matter what you did. That said, a 80% global playback success is pretty good IMHO, some might be lucky where 100% of their library would fall in that 80% compatible quote, some would be so unlucky that 100% of their library fall in the 20% incompatible quote, if that is the case then the PBO (or any 1077 Realtek chipset based player) is simply not a viable option for them.


YEP...... "unrealistic expectations" will always lead you to a big let down with anything in life. Especially electronic equipment ( oh...and women! :p:p:p)

Besides, I thought the base point of a media player like the PBO was to easily play "computer type media" on your TV.

Fact is the PBO does this pretty darn well.

It also saves space ( no more shelves of tapes/cd's/dvd's/ etc).... it eliminates all the various players........ and has many other great & worthwhile features right out of the box. Not to mention the huge potential of these type devices.

My advice is

1- be realistic and do not expect it to do everything. NOTHING EVER DOES!;)

2- take into consideration this is a new device and will improve.( New devices like this always improve by being tweaked or replaced)


I'm not even going to discuss the companies support or lack of it. That is a moot aspect in making my point.

[snappy46]

So I am assuming that those forums also has a ZERO manufacturer presence as well ?! :rolleyes:, problems is one thing (at the end of the day these are all running on the same Realtek chipset and the GUI is based on the same RT reference GUI, and the firmware is based on almost the same RT SDK), dealing with problems is another thing.


Ah! Aasoror; after I read my post back I was sure that someone was going to come back with some remarks about the participation of the manufacturer in the forums. Your sarcasm is correct there is no doubt that a higher participation and wilingness to fix problems from the manufacturer's rep was evident. It'll give them that much over PM.:)

[quickcurrent]

Not only is this statement unfair but its not even realistic, a freshly formatted PC (even with a media center edition of the OS) will only play 10% of your media, not only do u need to install the appropriate codec packs, but you also need to keep on updating them *manually* to achieve a so called "100% playback ability", there is a reason "K-lite codec pack" gets an almost monthly update .. :rolleyes:, so unless you have a media player that would allow you to manually install missing codecs you will never achieve 100% no matter what you did. That said, a 80% global playback success is pretty good IMHO, some might be lucky where 100% of their library would fall in that 80% compatible quote, some would be so unlucky that 100% of their library fall in the 20% incompatible quote, if that is the case then the PBO (or any 1077 Realtek chipset based player) is simply not a viable option for them.

Ahhhhh... if I could only add the codecs to this box like I can to my PC! It sure would beat having to convert ad nauseum, LOL. Maybe that's something for the manufacturer to consider - or better yet, throw open the source code like it's been suggested and let somebody else do it. I have no qualms with the hardware - that part is quite adequate, but the software sucks big time. So if you're reading this, Mr. Patriot, release the source. Many of us would be much happier, heck maybe we'd even buy other Patriot gear !!

[gmd024]

How should the PBO be rated based on this fact ? unless the contributing members here are actually signed and legally bound to Patriot, there is nothing that would guarantee that this member only support would continue tomorrow or next week. How can someone say that PBO is the best player out there based on support "SOLELY" provided by punch of members out of their own good will. Where should you go of the "tips and tricks" provided by the members here didn't resolve your issue

Geeze!! - I was only rhetorically commenting on the fact that - if the PBO's firmware ever became 'open source' - it might blossom into a good thing for all concerned

The mere "cohesion" of the members on this forum would lead a person to believe that it is a definate and probable possibility - sorry if I stuck a thorn in someones' side - that was not the intent by any means

[aasoror]

The mere "cohesion" of the members on this forum would lead a person to believe that it is a definate and probable possibility - sorry if I stuck a thorn in someones' side - that was not the intent by any means

Non taken my friend :) , the rant was intended for PM (as usual), as if its not frustrating enough that they don't have any support for the product and totally left the users to support themselves (not to mention the savings there), the fact that is now turning to be the selling point for the box (sad but true) is even more frustrating.

[scboley]

Non taken my friend :) , the rant was intended for PM (as usual), as if its not frustrating enough that they don't have any support for the product and totally left the users to support themselves (not to mention the savings there), the fact that is now turning to be the selling point for the box (sad but true) is even more frustrating.

So well said and sadder is the fact that I think parts of the company have to be clueless to what is going on here.

[gmd024]

Understood - it 'is' a frustrating situation -- to have a box that has so much potential - but the manufactorer has basically abandoned its' customers/patrons to fend for themselves to fix (or should I say find work-arounds) for the many issues faced with the PBO

[quickcurrent]

You got that right gmd024.

I have been losing parts of files somehow when moving them to my expansion drive hooked up to my unit. At first, I thought it was something to do with the conversion process. Upon looking into further, I find that the file was fine right up until the point of having it on the memory stick. I have been using the "move" command on the PBO to make the copying and deleting process a one-step operation. I have never had any trouble with doing that in the many years of using sucky Windows (all versions) so I never considered that to be my problem. Sure enough the "move" command in the PBO can't be trusted - it often truncates files and then rather than checking to see that the file has been completely copied before it deletes the copy on the stick, it ignores that step and deletes the original file anyways, so I end up with bits of files rather than whole files. So don't use the "move" command in the PBO, stick to the "copy" then delete later once you know you have the complete file where you want it. Another reason for Patriot to go open source. So add this to the crappy, primitive, non-intuitive, and barely functional interface. This firmware is a piece of software that, if it were a non-essential shareware app, would not last more than a few minutes on my PC, LOL.

[gmd024]

You got that right gmd024.

I have been losing parts of files somehow when moving them to my expansion drive hooked up to my unit. At first, I thought it was something to do with the conversion process. Upon looking into further, I find that the file was fine right up until the point of having it on the memory stick. I have been using the "move" command on the PBO to make the copying and deleting process a one-step operation. I have never had any trouble with doing that in the many years of using sucky Windows (all versions) so I never considered that to be my problem. Sure enough the "move" command in the PBO can't be trusted - it often truncates files and then rather than checking to see that the file has been completely copied before it deletes the copy on the stick, it ignores that step and deletes the original file anyways, so I end up with bits of files rather than whole files. So don't use the "move" command in the PBO, stick to the "copy" then delete later once you know you have the complete file where you want it. Another reason for Patriot to go open source. So add this to the crappy, primitive, non-intuitive, and barely functional interface. This firmware is a piece of software that, if it were a non-essential shareware app, would not last more than a few minutes on my PC, LOL.

I can appreciate your anxiety -- but if you've been a regular visitor to this forum - you may know that it will get you nothing but high blood pressure - bcz it falls on deaf ears (as far as PM is concerned) - the members support this forum pretty much "Exclusively" and there is a lot of knowledgeable members ready to help anyone in need

I have avoided the drive problems (when one is installed inside the PBO) by using a USB connected drive to the PBO (only when wanting to play 'original' BD ripped content) - most all other content plays/wirelessly streams through the PBO without issue - including SD content and BD content that has been squeezed down with software like BD Rebuilder, HandBrake or RipBot264) - all mentioned software functions fine w/Windows 7 64-bit platform (and will also work w/Windows x32 platforms)

Hope the suggestions help!

[quickcurrent]

I can appreciate your anxiety -- but if you've been a regular visitor to this forum - you may know that it will get you nothing but high blood pressure - bcz it falls on deaf ears (as far as PM is concerned) - the members support this forum pretty much "Exclusively" and there is a lot of knowledgeable members ready to help anyone in need

I have avoided the drive problems (when one is installed inside the PBO) by using a USB connected drive to the PBO (only when wanting to play 'original' BD ripped content) - most all other content plays/wirelessly streams through the PBO without issue - including SD content and BD content that has been squeezed down with software like BD Rebuilder, HandBrake or RipBot264) - all mentioned software functions fine w/Windows 7 64-bit platform (and will also work w/Windows x32 platforms)

Hope the suggestions help!

To be fair to Patriot, they do have tech support - I used it. They just don't bother reading these forums, but will help via email. They are well aware of the software's shortcomings, but like I posted above, it's a matter of making money and providing solid customer support is not a priority to them. After all, Patriot is a hardware maker first and foremost. That's why I believe this box needs to go to open source.

BTW, the trouble I have had losing files is while moving them from a USB stick to a Seagate USB connected 500Gb external expansion drive for file storage. So don't use the "move" command or risk having your files truncated.

[gmd024]

To be fair to Patriot, they do have tech support - I used it. They just don't bother reading these forums, but will help via email. They are well aware of the software's shortcomings, but like I posted above, it's a matter of making money and providing solid customer support is not a priority to them. After all, Patriot is a hardware maker first and foremost. That's why I believe this box needs to go to open source.

BTW, the trouble I have had losing files is while moving them from a USB stick to a Seagate USB connected 500Gb external expansion drive for file storage. So don't use the "move" command or risk having your files truncated.

OK - I mis-understood your drive set up and issue

Yep - ditto on the open source - a few of the forum members are trying to get their collective knowledge together and develop a firmware version that hopefully will 'unlock' some new possibilities for the PBO

Thanks for the heads up about the move command

[snappy46]

Yep - ditto on the open source - a few of the forum members are trying to get their collective knowledge together and develop a firmware version that hopefully will 'unlock' some new possibilities for the PBO


Although I understand the eagerness of some people to make this box better and build a firmware that will expand the potential of this box; I don't see why I should do that.

The problem is this is not an old obsolite box that I am trying to make better there is still a hot market for this type of players with a lot of competition. What I am trying to say; is why should I spend my time, money, experience and energy to build a new firmware? Why would I want to do PM's job? Why? So that the same company that let us down can benefit in sales increase from this box because word got out that some keen people on this site have created a great firmware package for this box? I think not.

First let's consider how much your time and effort are worth. Once you calculate that you might find that purchasing another player from a competitor that actually provides some support might be the way to go.

Please before we go that route let PM prove to us that they are worthy of our effort. Of course I would like to increase the funtionality of my PBO but I don't think PM deserve an increase in sale off our back. The support given by the members here for free is already more than what they deserve. That being said if Patriot decide to stop production of the PBO or comes out with a different media player :eek: count me in to help increase this box potential.

Ok I am sitting comfortably so let me have it; I know some people will be upset with my opinion. Oh! Well!!

Cheers!

[quickcurrent]

Although I understand the eagerness of some people to make this box better and build a firmware that will expand the potential of this box; I don't see why I should do that.

The problem is this is not an old obsolite box that I am trying to make better there is still a hot market for this type of players with a lot of competition. What I am trying to say; is why should I spend my time, money, experience and energy to build a new firmware? Why would I want to do PM's job? Why? So that the same company that let us down can benefit in sales increase from this box because word got out that some keen people on this site have created a great firmware package for this box? I think not.

First let's consider how much your time and effort are worth. Once you calculate that you might find that purchasing another player from a competitor that actually provides some support might be the way to go.

Please before we go that route let PM prove to us that they are worthy of our effort. Of course I would like to increase the funtionality of my PBO but I don't think PM deserve an increase in sale off our back. The support given by the members here for free is already more than what they deserve. That being said if Patriot decide to stop production of the PBO or comes out with a different media player :eek: count me in to help increase this box potential.

Ok I am sitting comfortably so let me have it; I know some people will be upset with my opinion. Oh! Well!!

Cheers!

You have a very valid point. That needs to be balanced against the inconveniences the box throws at us now.

[ryanjn]

After only a week of testing, I've already decided to throw in the towel on the Patriot Box Office. I must admit that the multimedia playback onto my HDTV worked better than expected; the quality was great!.. though, that's where my enthusiasm ends. Sure there were a few mechanical hiccups here and there (regardless of LAN, WLAN or HDD), but those aren't really big deal breakers for me. It's the UI.. it completely blows. There is also very little sign of life from Patriot (or their new third-party software vendor) of any improvement to come. There's quite a competitive market for media player devices like this now, and by neglecting the community, Patriot has basically dug the grave for the PBO. The DvdPlayer app basically drives the UI, and it's closed sourced, owned by Realtek.

I've pre-ordered a popbox (http://popbox.com/) and look forward to testing it out. The device is already promised to be open to the community, and there will be a development platform available. Further, there's a forum (http://www.networkedmediatank.com/showthread.php?tid=36455) full of information about the device.

Patriot: Lead, follow.. or get out of the way.

Good luck to the rest of you! I've seen some very supportive members of this forum who understand the box inside and out.. they too are forced to either deal with the shortcomings or try flashing a competitors firmware onto the device. You deserve better.

[aasoror]

Ok I am sitting comfortably so let me have it; I know some people will be upset with my opinion. Oh! Well!!


certainly not me.
I can't agree more with snappy.

That said, there "might" be several tricks worthy of investigation that should involve minimal effort. They are more of a added convenience for the tricks that the members have already established (like keeping the PBO firmware intact while running other dvdPlayer application).

[snappy46]

That said, there "might" be several tricks worthy of investigation that should involve minimal effort. They are more of a added convenience for the tricks that the members have already established (like keeping the PBO firmware intact while running other dvdPlayer application).

Agree with your statement my beef is mainly dealing with creating a firmware specifically for the PBO. I am all in for using some other manufacturer firmware, Adding or improving on some of the capability etc... The fact is I myself even posted some thread dealing with some of the possible improvement that can be made and more to come when I have time. Those are different issues all together. In a matter of fact I can only hope that us using some other manufacturer's firmware instead of the PBO will only steer people toward purchasing the media player that uses that firmware vs the PBO.

Hey, maybe a new firmware release from PM might change all this; but it would have to be one heck of a release for me to even think about recommending the PBO vs some of their competitor's players at this time. It's too bad really because as far as the hardware is concern the PBO is as good and even better than some of the other media player on the market.

[DeanN]

Hey, maybe a new firmware release from PM might change all this; but it would have to be one heck of a release for me to even think about recommending the PBO vs some of their competitor's players at this time. It's too bad really because as far as the hardware is concern the PBO is as good and even better than some of the other media player on the market.



Are there signs of PM abandoning the PBO? (Price drops to bottom, moderators disappear, broken promises). I'm not concerned any more. The PBO, as it is, a potential medial player on the market, but it's a TOY, ladies and gentlemen! If Patriot releases new firmware, let's see. If not, we should take care in our hands. But wait! When will its stock be depleted?

[outatouch0]

Are there signs of PM abandoning the PBO? (Price drops to bottom, moderators disappear, broken promises). I'm not concerned any more. The PBO, as it is, a potential medial player on the market, but it's a TOY, ladies and gentlemen! If Patriot releases new firmware, let's see. If not, we should take care in our hands. But wait! When will its stock be depleted?

Hard to say... PBO's still seem to be falling through that "hole" in the Chinese factory. Some version of them will likely be available for awhile...

[outatouch0]

Although I understand the eagerness of some people to make this box better and build a firmware that will expand the potential of this box; I don't see why I should do that.

The problem is this is not an old obsolite box that I am trying to make better there is still a hot market for this type of players with a lot of competition. What I am trying to say; is why should I spend my time, money, experience and energy to build a new firmware? Why would I want to do PM's job? Why? So that the same company that let us down can benefit in sales increase from this box because word got out that some keen people on this site have created a great firmware package for this box? I think not.

First let's consider how much your time and effort are worth. Once you calculate that you might find that purchasing another player from a competitor that actually provides some support might be the way to go.

Please before we go that route let PM prove to us that they are worthy of our effort. Of course I would like to increase the funtionality of my PBO but I don't think PM deserve an increase in sale off our back. The support given by the members here for free is already more than what they deserve. That being said if Patriot decide to stop production of the PBO or comes out with a different media player :eek: count me in to help increase this box potential.

Ok I am sitting comfortably so let me have it; I know some people will be upset with my opinion. Oh! Well!!

You ASKED FOR IT SO HERE GOES :p

Its funny because the thought that came to mind when I read:


Yep - ditto on the open source - a few of the forum members are trying to get their collective knowledge together and develop a firmware version that hopefully will 'unlock' some new possibilities for the PBO

was:
Yea do all that so PM can steal it and claim it as proprietary firmware of their own :eek:

yea yea I know, cynicism is so unusual for me hehehhe

[aasoror]

From legit reviews (http://www.legitreviews.com/article/1147/1/)


One of the things we really like about Patriot is how they not only talk about supporting their products, but actually step up to the plate and deliver on the things their consumers want. After only two weeks on the market, the Patriot team has taken a huge step forward in making the Box Office one of the most complete media players available today.

Admit it PM .. which media player did you actually send to LR ? :p

[PBO54321]

BTW did you look at the Revision # in the Review showing the Update screen.
It does not match any of my PBO numbers and seems later (newer) than the one I have on my PBO purchased recently.

Rev: 269712 (from screen picture of update in article on 12/02/2009)

=============================
Compared to my PBO Root App: 269144

[aasoror]

Whats going on ? is it a trend now with PM products (http://www.patriotmem.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3334) ?

That said, I was impressed by post #8 ;)

[tskitishvili]

200 replies, 12000 views, why is this thread not sticky yet ?

[wigout]

because it's a stupid thread.
[flame-on]

[visionlogic]

200 replies, 12000 views, why is this thread not sticky yet ?

"In order to insure that the customer experience is not degraded and only the highest possible quality of threads are granted the label of "sticky" in the most timely manner possible, the management has transferred the SRACS (Stickiness Rating and Control System) to the expert care of the Firmware Development Team." :rolleyes:

[Abaddon]

Yeah, they'll get it stickied once they finish up that new firmware. :rolleyes:

[Nugpot]

200 replies, 12000 views, why is this thread not sticky yet ?

Because Patriot's out-sourced support guy only log on to this forum once a month... maybe he will have a look around here next month...

[aasoror]

For new firmware in the works: new UI over lay, added web services and some fixes, ODD drive support (not confirmed)


This was posted January 20st, 2010.

So the shameful P04, had non of this things promised about 2 months before its release (last time I checked past tense was used for things already accomplished), any way with so much pressure on PM around that time, one can understand (yet doesn't accept) that a half backed firmware was released to silent the angry crowd.


We have been working with our vendor for the next firmware update, so apologize for any late response. All in all, we are doing the best we can to help expedite the process. This is the first media player box we released, and we do take acount for all the feedback accumlated to date for our feature product development.

Regardless, we are still doing what we can to improve exiting firmware.

Posted April 5th, ok, no one is in a hurry, no one asked for a firmware update, while everyone is peacefully minding his own business, PM leaks this.

So whats the excuse now ? not only Realtek provided the latest SDK that already has online content implemented (check the file structure), a feature that PM claimed they HAVE ALREADY implemented 4 months ago, but PM chose (or just didn't care) to implement the interface option (the online content menu that access all the rss files that are found in the FS)

Well done PM, thanks for improving the long forsaken BT functionality, indeed .. you "do take acount for all the feedback accumlated to date for our feature product development"

[outatouch0]

Well done PM, thanks for improving the long forsaken BT functionality, indeed .. you "do take acount for all the feedback accumlated to date for our feature product development"

Must have taken into account the OTHER feedback on the OTHER PM forum ;)

[blocked]

"future development" means "future development". At least they are honest about it ;)

[traitoR]

I'm going to have to go with yes, i did'nt think support could get any worse as the months tick by, but apparently if you have a bootcode 16 you don't deserve any support at all, P04 which broke functionality is A-OK i guess.

[aasoror]

PM are going to get even more bricked devices now
right from the product webpage (http://www.patriotmemory.com/products/detailp.jsp?prodline=6&catid=69&prodgroupid=159&id=895&type=20)

Firmware:
Bootcode: 16 Download - P05 Firmware
Bootcode: 18 or 20, Download -P04 Firmware

Notice that the firmware is directly linked, so now there is no way for anyone to know that P05 isn't meant for bootcode 16 (since you don't go through the forum sticky)

[anadigi]

PM are going to get even more bricked devices now
right from the product webpage (http://www.patriotmemory.com/products/detailp.jsp?prodline=6&catid=69&prodgroupid=159&id=895&type=20)


Notice that the firmware is directly linked, so now there is no way for anyone to know that P05 isn't meant for bootcode 16 (since you don't go through the forum sticky)

Do anyone know the different between 18/20?
Very funny support:confused:

[aasoror]

Do anyone know the different between 18/20?
Very funny support:confused:

The difference between 18/20 is the same as the difference between 16/18.

18-16 = 20-18 (thats as good as its going to get) :p

Not to mention that bootcode 20 is no where to be found so you kind of don't even have that option.

[anadigi]

The difference between 18/20 is the same as the difference between 16/18.

18-16 = 20-18 (thats as good as its going to get) :p

Not to mention that bootcode 20 is no where to be found so you kind of don't even have that option.

I think it is not a good idea to have so many bootcodes in a short period of time & with no info.
How can you convince a customer to hunt for a pay by your own cable to upgrade a product! I think it is sad!
I think it is a very outdated policy these days!

[aasoror]

I think it is not a good idea to have so many bootcodes in a short period of time & with no info.
How can you convince a customer to hunt for a pay by your own cable to upgrade a product! I think it is sad!
I think it is a very outdated policy these days!

So you would rather have a incomplete bootcode that is problematic or has issues rather than dealing with the inconvenience of the update ?!

The choice is yours, no one was trying to convince you to do the update, just don't complain about malfunctions or problems because the only way to fix them is via an update.

I would personally prefer to get an update every single day if that fixes the problem identified with the previous releases.

That said, no one even knows what does any of these bootcodes do ;)

Microsoft products gets an automatic update every couple of hours due to identified (and fixed) issues, its never an outdated policy to correct your own mistakes rather than just pretend its not there.

[tskitishvili]

Patriot,

What's new in bootcode 20 compared with 18 and where can we download it ?

[outatouch0]

has patriot completely given up on the box office?

Recent activity would suggest the answer is no.
HOWEVER they have also not completely given up on their, truth is stranger than fiction, way of going about it either... :eek:

[aasoror]

has patriot completely given up on the box office?

Recent activity would suggest the answer is no.
HOWEVER they have also not completely given up on their, truth is stranger than fiction, way of going about it either... :eek:

You are seeing a single file upload for a firmware that is 2 months over due (and you call that activity?)


Any feature and bugfix list ? nope.
Proper upload and announcement ? nope.
Firmware that unlocked the features already provided by the SDK ? nope.
Follow up from the reps on the questions raised related to the firmware ? nope. (at least CJ followed up on the P04 release)
Correct description in the product page ? nope (fixed now).
Correction for the incomplete and wrong firmware update instructions (like not mentioning FAT32 requirement or wrongly asking you to reboot your box) ? nope.
A possible solution for those being left in the dust because they have bootcode .16 ? nope.


Activity ??!? :p

[outatouch0]

You are seeing a single file upload for a firmware that is 2 months over due (and you call that activity?)


Any feature and bugfix list ? nope.
Proper upload and announcement ? nope.
Firmware that unlocked the features already provided by the SDK ? nope.
Follow up from the reps on the questions raised related to the firmware ? nope. (at least CJ followed up on the P04 release)
Correct description in the product page ? nope (fixed now).
Correction for the incomplete and wrong firmware update instructions (like not mentioning FAT32 requirement or wrongly asking you to reboot your box) ? nope.
A possible solution for those being left in the dust because they have bootcode .16 ? nope.


Activity ??!? :p

That would be: "the truth is STRANGER than fiction" part. We could not make up a story this odd if we tried. :eek:

[watcher]

You are seeing a single file upload for a firmware that is 2 months over due (and you call that activity?)

.................................................. ....................
Activity ??!? :p

I would.
------------------>


activity

Function:noun

Inflected Form: plural -ties

Date:1530

1 : the quality or state of being active
2 : vigorous or energetic action : LIVELINESS
3 : natural or normal function: as a : a process (as digestion) that an organism carries on or participates in by virtue of being alive b : a similar process actually or potentially involving mental function; specifically : an educational procedure designed to stimulate learning by firsthand experience
4 : an active force
5 a : a pursuit in which a person is active b : a form of organized, supervised, often extracurricular recreation
6 : an organizational unit for performing a specific function; also : its function or duties


;)


MAY NOT BE THE ACTIVITY YOU WISH............ but it is ACTIVITY.

I have an 8 gig sansa fuze mp3 player..........it's not perfect or "does it all".....it freezes sometimes and other stuff. It doesn't have these fantastic firmware flashes released all the time..... But I sure like it and it was worth the money.

Same for my garmin GPS............my gigabyte MB and loads of other stuff.

Matter of fact.some things like my TV and car can't be flashed and I'm stuck forever with it as is.

So....in the bigger scheme of things........................;)

PO5 does seems to be activity in the right direction as it added a bit and seems to have improved the stability and speed of my PBO. AND IT IS FREE!!!...........

PERFECT????? well NO...............

BUT--------------->
I'm not gonna look a gift horse in the mouth.

BETTER THAN SOMETHING CALLED -----> NOTHING :p

[Sukram]

Well, just my 2 cents now: :D

Why so angry about patriot? The Box does exactly what it´s meant to do - not more, not less - just have a look to other boxes. Yeah, right, they really DO have more features, BUT the also have more BUGS. Sometimes I believe that they are doing a big beta-testing with their customers. Releasing one update after the other and introducion 3 new featurs including 10 new bugs. Believe me, the better way is less features and less bugs ;)

Greetinx,

Markus.

[snappy46]

Well, just my 2 cents now: :D

Why so angry about patriot? The Box does exactly what it´s meant to do - not more, not less - .

Very debatable; just ask those guy's with a Toshiba television

[QUOTE=Sukram;20698]
just have a look to other boxes. Yeah, right, they really DO have more features, BUT the also have more BUGS. Sometimes I believe that they are doing a big beta-testing with their customers. Releasing one update after the other and introducion 3 new featurs including 10 new bugs. Believe me, the better way is less features and less bugs ;)
QUOTE]

The main difference between PBO and most of the other media players in this category is the fact that other company unlike Patriot have some kind of support that is offer to customer to solve their problems. Are they treated like big beta-tester? Yup! But at least they let them know about it. One of those company even issue the firmware as a beta and let their customer know about it and encourage their customer to report any finding. They work with the customer on the issues and once they have been ironed out they post the new firmware on their main site.

I don't see any of this going on here the firmware are just drop on this forum with very little; and sometimes none; documentation at all. Thanks to a few dedicated owner of the PBO; solution for our problems get resolved quickly most of the time unless its a problem that only a firmware change can resolve.

Cheers!!:)

[Sukram]

The main difference between PBO and most of the other media players in this category is the fact that other company unlike Patriot have some kind of support that is offer to customer to solve their problems. Are they treated like big beta-tester? Yup! But at least they let them know about it. One of those company even issue the firmware as a beta and let their customer know about it and encourage their customer to report any finding. They work with the customer on the issues and once they have been ironed out they post the new firmware on their main site.

I don't see any of this going on here the firmware are just drop on this forum with very little; and sometimes none; documentation at all. Thanks to a few dedicated owner of the PBO; solution for our problems get resolved quickly most of the time unless its a problem that only a firmware change can resolve.

Cheers!!:)

There´s no program in the world without any bug (sorry for the guys with Toshiba TVs), but you´re right, the communicaton customer<=>Patriot could be better, even a kind of official beta-testing would be great. And last not least: I´m also glad to have users like asassor or outatouch0 here to help greenhorns like me ;)

Hellas,

Markus.

[aasoror]

There´s no program in the world without any bug
Asking for a bug free program is unreasonable (no one is debating that).
I can understand why you rn't angry with PM, because simply you don't have a reason to be so. The forum has answer to every question imaginable related the PBO, there is also insights and recommendation about stuff that aren't directly related (like software and encoding tools), there are even members that are willing to work with you in any new issue that might be no already tackled in the forum.

Similarly you need to understand why those members (who came up unassisted with the aforementioned solutions) have every right to be angry with PM, because they ended up having to lurk around other forums and search online and experiment to come up with these solutions.

"The customer <=> support communication could be better" ..? well that communication need to exist first, before we debate whether or not it needs to be better ;)

This is my rant of the day (now I need 5 more helpful posts to warrant me another rant) :p

[outatouch0]

Watcher and Sukram

Since your posts like these seem to be following a few of us around it is reasonable to conclude they MIGHT be directed at certain one's of us. Thus I will ONCE AGAIN respond to this... :rolleyes:

I wont reiterate what aasoror said - he said it well enough. What I will add to it is please do not mistake our poking fun with each other at PM's expense as hate and anger. If I HATED the PBO that much (or at all) I would not be here learning more about it and helping others just starting out. I appreciate all the help I receive and I try to give some back to the PBO community.
So, you could classify me as a PBO fan or at least an enthusiast. Does it mean I will polish a turd and call it candy? Certainly not. On the other hand you will also see me post criticism on unrealistic expectations. i.e. I try to be fair.
Lastly, both newbies and veterans are confronted with same or similar frustrations with the PBO.... And GOSH DARNIT its fun to be able to share a few inside jokes amongst ourselves at PM's expense. Though it might have been more fun if they at least TRIED to defend themselves....
Oh yea, that was akin to a pillow fight against a guy with no arms and legs :p

[watcher]

........... Sometimes I believe that they are doing a big beta-testing with their customers. ....................

Well..........it is a "NEW TOY"........... it's to be expected.

Microsoft is still in beta form after how many years now????????????

:p:p:p:p

The problem with "modern society" is they want everything right now...pre-digested and effort free................PLANET EARTH DOES NOT FUNCTION IN THIS MANNER...........never did............never will.

Best get use to it and lower your stress levels folks.............

STRESS KILLS.
;)

[watcher]

Asking for a bug free program is unreasonable (no one is debating that).
........................

Fact is............when you are playing on the "cutting edge"........... you are a beta tester......... you must EXPECT to have bugs/issues...........if you want less issues and an easy way to go.............. then only buy stuff that's been beta tested a year or so............

RIGHT???????????
;)

[aasoror]

Fact is............when you are playing on the "cutting edge"........... you are a beta tester......... you must EXPECT to have bugs/issues...........if you want less issues and an easy way to go.............. then only buy stuff that's been beta tested a year or so............

RIGHT???????????
;)

Didn't I say it clear enough ..?
If it wasn't then here you go one more time .. YES.. YES... YES.
"asking for bug-free software is unreasonable"
should it be more clearer than that ?! :p
that said, bugs isn't the issue, what you do about them is the real issue.
So dig your shovel and bring me a single bug acknowledgment from PM, or a single report about a bug fix ?!

I am not sure why are we saying this for so many time, people the thread is so long, just read the first 10 pages or so, every point that any one is raising now has been already raised and shot to death earlier ;) just read the earlier posts.

Watcher, you can't be a beta tester if there is no one to report to .. right ?! being a beta tester is one thing, and being thrown by a half baked released software on a "as-is" condition is another. If you can prove otherwise then bring on your evidence ... how hard can it be to understand FACTS ..?! go through the buglist and wishlist (almost 7 months old now) and find me a single thing that was addressed due to PM development efforts and not due to an SDK upgrade from the chipset owner, so how you can call yourself a beta tester if you are never listened to and no fixes whatsoever was made for the things that you have reported ?! :rolleyes:

We have nothing against the PBO, (in case you didn't know the only selling point for the PBO now is THIS FORUM), lets stick with the facts, there is nothing special about the PBO (its just another Realtek based player, with all the pluses and minuses), as a matter of fact with the most recent firmware update, the PBO is currently the least Realtek based media player feature wise, the PBO is the only media player in the market running with next to not-modified reference firmware. the only unique thing about the PBO is the absence of the manufacturer support, just point me to any media player manufacturer forum that has no manufacturer presence .. take your pick ... Xtreamer, ACRyan, Media8or, WDTV, O!Play ... the list goes on and on ...

Please don't put it as if its something normal because it isn't, someone is making budget cuts and letting the customers take care of themselves, this is just unacceptable and should not be defended in any way.

OK, I am still way below my 80-20 for the day, so I would be more than happy to debate any "NEW" points (or I will just re-quote my older posts from 10-15 pages earlier).

I am not ranting or nagging or making a career out of it, I am just not letting others get disillusioned about it trying to think its normal .. :p

[scboley]

the only unique thing about the PBO is the absence of the manufacturer support, just point me to any media player manufacturer forum that has no manufacturer presence .. take your pick ... Xtreamer, ACRyan, Media8or, WDTV, O!Play ... the list goes on and on ...

Please don't put it as if its something normal because it isn't, someone is making budget cuts and letting the customers take care of themselves, this is just unacceptable and should not be defended in any way.

I am not ranting or nagging or making a career out of it, I am just not letting others get disillusioned about it trying to think its normal .. :p

Hey maybe we should either rename this thread or start a new one called Have we given up on Patriot but not the PBO?

[watcher]

.............
Watcher, you can't be a beta tester if there is no one to report to .. right ?!....................

Well.........you got me there. :p:p:p

But still........for the price & build quality.........still a deal IMHO.

[outatouch0]

Hey maybe we should either rename this thread or start a new one called Have we given up on Patriot but not the PBO?

:eek: :D lmao - well said hehehe

as to the above... we might have been beta testers in Dec-Jan. We, as a forum, have long since moved into the firmware DEVELOPERS ranks :rolleyes:

[aasoror]

Newbie help ?!? :rolleyes:
well .. if Patriot thinks so :p

[tskitishvili]

Hey maybe we should either rename this thread or start a new one called Have we given up on Patriot but not the PBO?

Although I think my PBRyan is the best realtek based player for the money, I'm not going to recommend it or buy any more software dependent products from Patriot.

Memory, Flash cards, etc. are excepted. :)

[scboley]

So patriot is moving these threads around? I guess no regular joes among us have moderator status huh.

[aasoror]

But still........for the price & build quality.........still a deal IMHO.
Even that is now debatable, O!Play R1 current least sale price is about $5 cheaper than the PBO current least sale price ($75 and $80 in Canada), all the other Realtek players are hovering around $80 ~ $120. Now considering they all have the same compatibility list (and very similar hardware), in such a very competitive market, its now arguable whether people should get a media player with no manufacturer support for a $10 savings and assume its a good deal.

[watcher]

Newbie help ?!? :rolleyes:
well .. if Patriot thinks so :p



SEE.............this is EXACTLY why sub topics are a bad idea for this "SUB FORUM".
DUH!

[aasoror]

SEE.............this is EXACTLY why sub topics are a bad idea for this "SUB FORUM".
DUH!

moved to general discussion now .. :)

[outatouch0]

moved to general discussion now .. :)

General discussion... of what one should expect? Maybe it IS newbie help after-all ?

[Indo57]

I am sorry, but comments like that have been shot to death before. The initial WOW factor is expected and understandable for those who don't know any better (nothing personal its just mere truth), I would highly suggest you reading the 24 pages thread here and getting your facts straight first before putting "PBO", "unrealistic" and "complaints" in the same sentence.

If you go through the linked thread and still have something you feel needs further discussion feel free to post there

1. It seems also that there are also those who share my opinion in this thread.
2. It's performed well for 2 months or so, why is that WOW factor?
3. "those who don't know any better"? a rather patronising, arrogant comment.
4 I have browsed through most of the threads here already.
5. Which of my facts are not straight? please be specific.

I researched what was available and decided PBO was most suitable for me, the Asus also would probably do the job but still has quite a few problems, and I am perfectly happy with my decision. I choose not to run an internal HD because it seems to avoid som of the problems being reported and find it more convenient to use external drives anyway.
As I said, it does exactly what I ask of it. Other units have their problems too, including firmware upgrade problems and most of the problems reported in these forums.
The only legitimate bitch here seems to be that Patriot do seem to have moved on and forgotten BO.
The product itself seems to be no better or worse than most and you can find lists of complaints on most product forums.
Although not practical for me in Indonesia it appears that Patriot will readily replace any faulty boxes anyway. Is that true?

These products are all fairly new to the market and are bound to have a few issues 1080p hdmi video players at $100 are IMHO are an amazing feat and at that price I fully expect to replace it in a couple of years when these units have had a couple of generations development.
I would then expect that the issues people are having will have been resolved.
That's just how life works.
If you don't want any problems never buy the first models of anything.
Cars, TV's, CPU's, whatever, they all seem to have their problems ironed out over a generation or two, untill some new technology comes along and the process starts again.
Few products in this world are perfect, just look at Toyota's problems at the moment.

[aasoror]

1. It seems also that there are also those who share my opinion in this thread.


Thanks for getting back to me my friend.
Before I address the points you raised, can you please advice me if you have read this thread or not ? your comments would make me inclined to think that you DID NOT read this thread, if you didn't then I will just requote you the posts that "has shot to death every single point raised in both your posts", if you have indeed read this thread and still raise the points outlined in your post then perhaps the posts were not clear and I will -once again- address each of your points.

Once more, there is no arrogance or disrespect involved (and please accept my sincere apologies for any gestures that is certainly not intended), its mere logic, number and facts.

But let me start by quoting you ..

I bought my PBO 2 months ago ...
then you say


The only legitimate bitch here seems to be that Patriot do seem to have moved on and forgotten BO.

This is the whole issue which I think should be clear for you if you have read the posts here (the thread name is not "lets rant about how bad of a product the PBO is" .. right ?)

So you bought a product 2 months ago that was merely released 3-4 months before you got it, then you are saying that the manufacturer have moved on and forgotten their just released product ?!? I am sorry but this is just sad and is not acceptable and justifies for every single rant here.



I have rarely if ever got a piece of equipment which offers so much for such a small price so I really think that all the complaing is a bit unrealistic.
If you want top quality audio/video gear your looking at more like $1,000 not $100 so all things considered I think this is a groundbreaking bit of equipment for a very low price.

That what exactly what I meant by saying that such claims comes from those who don't know any better, and again there is no arrogance in my statement and no insult meant, because there is better and for the same price tag $100 or even less and with the same realtek chipset (1073DD) and they come with real manufacturer support and development efforts. You have just said that "you have never got a piece of equipment that does so much and for so little money", what I am telling you (with all respect and modesty), that there is FOR FACT better but you don't know it :)

There are indeed members shared your opinion but you will also find posts that answered every single point that was raised by those members. Just read this thread, or my very long posts (in this thread), there is facts, numbers, and links. Then come back and tell me if you still think that your fellow members complaints are "unrealistic". :)

To sum up, its all about the support, if you agree about that then there is nothing "unrealistic" about our complaints and there is also nothing to debate about and we all move along peacefully ;)

[Indo57]

Ok, I can understand why you maybe came across sounding a bit annoyed. No problem.

My original post was basically trying to state that I think some of the expectations people have for the product are unrealistic in that a new product of this, or indeed any type usually has some issues.

I agree that Patriot should put some effort into this and offer support.
When I said that is a legitimate bitch I am only going on the reports here that are claiming that is the case.

You say that there is better and you may be right but what I think is that after researching all the info and reviews I could find the PBO is still the best for "my" purposes. If you can name some more for me to research that would be great as I am keen to follow the developements in this area for my next purchase.

My only priority is 1080p, DTS or Dolby surround and mkv file support and the PBO delivers that well, after firmware 02 upgrade.

Sorry I'm not meaning to critisise anyone it's just that I think this product can offer a great experience if used within it's limitations. and I am sure from what I've read that most others also do not perform perfectly.

You suggested I reply in this thread so I also apologise if it is not so appropriate for my comments.

As to the lack of support, it seems that this forum itself though gives a lot of help, which is why I first came here just to seek answers about firmware upgrade.

I think maybe different people have different expectations so bound to be dissagreements but you are right, we can move along peacefully and hope that support will improve. But meantime thanks to those who share their knowledge here.

Cheers

[aasoror]

My original post was basically trying to state that I think some of the expectations people have for the product are unrealistic in that a new product of this, or indeed any type usually has some issues.

In all fairness to other members, you can rarely see any expectations at all. The only unrealistic expectations would be when people mistakenly thinks because the box has 2 USB ports and runs linux like OS then it can do your laundry too. That said, these are more of inquiries rather than expectations or complaints and usually other members clarify the device limitations.


You say that there is better and you may be right but what I think is that after researching all the info and reviews I could find the PBO is still the best for "my" purposes. If you can name some more for me to research that would be great as I am keen to follow the developements in this area for my next purchase.

The list is too long, you can check yourself here (http://www.iboum.com/net-media-players.php?sort=sortdate&chip=realtek&pfilt=&hdd=&net=&fan=&lcd=&dts=&dtsp=&dolbt=&dolbtp=&dtsma=&dtsmap=&year=&ppp=40&bd=&dvd=&pg=1&rp=crealtek)(all these have the same chipset 1073/1283 thus will have the same WOW'ing compatibility list), currently the PBO is buried deep in the bottom of this list due to the lack of any GUI convenience feature and absence of true support.

Notice that all the players with 1073/1283 chipset have a hardware issue and will not pass HD audio, if thats a requirement then check (in the same list) for 1073+/1283+ players.

If you want to move away from Realteks all together, then Syabase has two very appealing options: A-200 and the to be released lower priced PopBOX.



My only priority is 1080p, DTS or Dolby surround and mkv file support and the PBO delivers that well, after firmware 02 upgrade.

Just for the record, you might want to check P05 as well, seems to the latest and greatest compared to prior releases (unless it breaks some of your already running mp4s).



Sorry I'm not meaning to critisise anyone it's just that I think this product can offer a great experience if used within it's limitations. and I am sure from what I've read that most others also do not perform perfectly.

What do we exactly know about the real limitation of the PBO hardware, when its infact being crippled with the reference frimware running almost unmodified on it ? why not take a look at the "PBO makeover" link in my signature to get an idea about the true hardware capabilities of the box (and we are not even sure that this the best this box can do) ?



You suggested I reply in this thread so I also apologise if it is not so appropriate for my comments.

Not at all, this is the right place for your comments.



As to the lack of support, it seems that this forum itself though gives a lot of help

enough said :), a forum that is considered to be the first and last defense line for the PBO yet has ZERO presence from the device manufacturer.

[scboley]

enough said :), a forum that is considered to be the first and last defense line for the PBO yet has ZERO presence from the device manufacturer.
And that would be a BIG FAT ZERO 000000000000000000000000

[Indo57]

Most on the list you mention seem to use the 1073 or 1073DD chipset so I would imagine any info provided by the manufacturers would also apply to the PBO as it seems many companies are basicaly just building a box to package this product with only a few variations in the inputs/ outputs provided.

The Asus even appears to be the same menu screens.

If this is true they will all probably suffer from the same problems?

I would also bet that many of these manufacturers will not offer any support either though. There seems to be companies here I have sure never heard of and this is the same with all electronics these days but many are just fly by night operators in for a quick buck often in China where they do it very cheaply and don't have to worry about lawsuits or consumer protection legislation.

I'm just going to enjoy mine for a year or so and then when the 2nd or 3rd generation come out offering proven features I'll probably upgrade.

[snappy46]

I would also bet that many of these manufacturers will not offer any support either though.


You lose !!! Have a look at some of the other player using the 1073 IC (AC Ryan, Xtreamer, Asus O'play) and I think you will find active Manufacturer rep/moderator on their forums. PBO support on the other hand has been pretty much 99% from the PBO users.

You really should check the odds before betting anything. :D

[plattfuss]

My PBO (in BIOS) shows chipset 1073-DEMO.
Any sugestions-reasons why?
Boot code is 18. Firmware P05.

[wigout]

Welcome to the forums.

Not a terribly great place to ask that question (this is a griping thread, you've asked for factual information).

Anyway, the story goes that Realtek shopped around development boards to a lot of manufacturers for the rtd1073dd chip, every single one of them decided to market a device based almost entirely on that DEMOnstration development board... and so, somehow, the coders who've been hired to punch up the stock firmware have never bothered to change the "DEMO" designation in the system information.

And, afterall, given the real similarity of many of these devices (at least the on-screen interface), it pretty much remains a demo device.

-wigout

[black_valkyrie]

You lose !!! Have a look at some of the other player using the 1073 IC (AC Ryan, Xtreamer, Asus O'play) and I think you will find active Manufacturer rep/moderator on their forums. PBO support on the other hand has been pretty much 99% from the PBO users.

You really should check the odds before betting anything. :D


Wow.... you;re lucky they havent deleted your post... I just mentioned that I saw a WD at costco and my top[ic was deleted.... you've listed 4 competitors!!!


way to go Patriot... you;re going to single handedly censor the internet.

good luck with that...

advice... put less time into censoring people and more time into making a better product and I bet you a beer you'll have less complaints and you wont have anything to censor.


go figure.

[snappy46]

Wow.... you;re lucky they havent deleted your post... I just mentioned that I saw a WD at costco and my top[ic was deleted.... you've listed 4 competitors!!!


Well this is kind of a ranting thread where everything goes. However I am sure that if I put some kind of links to one of their competitor media player for sale I am sure that it would get deleted as well. I can not really blame them for that's the same as if I took my Honda car with a for sale sign on it in the parking lot of a GM dealer.

Cheers!:)

[aasoror]

Regardless of my reservations on this post, I couldn't help quoting this from the ACR forums (http://www.acryan.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=6153&start=240).


flint1962 wrote:
You think your support is bad! I have a PBO and our support is so bad that we have ported over the Playon firmware so we have a very usable player. At least you get updates.

[scboley]

Regardless of my reservations on this post, I couldn't help quoting this from the ACR forums (http://www.acryan.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=6153&start=240).
lol now that's funny.......A-man you're gaining ground on the fondness scale here lol.....